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Seems we live in days of many clays to break and little powder to do it with.

I only shoot skeets. My preferred load (in fact, the only load I have ever done in 20ga) uses WW WSF with 7/8oz. I have since seen the error of my ways and reduced the shot to 3/4oz without changing anything else.

Now that I'm at the bottom of my WSF jug and none is to be found anywhere, I'm thinking of using my jug of WW 231 as a substitute. I use the 231 for 45auto but since I'm not currently attending run 'n gun matches with handguns I am thinking of enlisting my 231 to the cause.

Looking at the powder charts, WW231 sits right under Alliant 20/28 so, what do ya'll think? Anyone try this before?

Thanks!
 

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"GC," I've done a fair amount of reloading over the past forty years, and cannot recall ever seeing load data for 20 gauge using WW231. I'm not doubting what you have read regarding where the burn rate of 231 sits compared to Alliant's 20/28, but in my wildest imagination, I can't see the burn rate of 231 being SLOWER than 20/28, if that is the way the chart you read is oriented. Truthfully, I've not known 231 to ever be anything but a handgun propellant, and a good one at that. It is my preferred .38 Special, 9 mm and .45ACP propellant. I too, have read "burn-rate charts" and been somewhat confused as to how the rankings were achieved. Most RECOMMENDED 20 gauge propellants, for 7/8 or 3/4 ounce loads, should be in the medium burn-rate field, i.e., WSF, Alliant's Green Dot or Unique, or Hodgdon's International or Universal Clays. Universal being most likely the better choice of the last two. Due to lack of experience of use, I can't speak for propellants from other producers, such as Accurate Arms. Best advice I can give you is consult a reputable reloading manual. There should be information in that regard on-line from either Hodgdon, Winchester or Alliant. Ken
 

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In handgun loads 231 does indeed parallel performance of several shotgun powders. I would not construe that as any kind of reciprocal use. Handguns are a whole 'nother tin of tuna compared to shotguns.

It might work hunky dory? Or not!

I don't have any idea who to send you too for info other than Hodgdon. They are the WW powder folks now.

BP
 

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Dig around. With the shortage of WW231 in most places, you may be able to make a trade for something in the line of shotgun powders with published data. Many bullet casters us a large variety of shotgun powders....as well as 231. Just a suggestion for safety purposes./beagle
 

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gc4895 said:
Seems we live in days of many clays to break and little powder to do it with.

I only shoot skeets. My preferred load (in fact, the only load I have ever done in 20ga) uses WW WSF with 7/8oz. I have since seen the error of my ways and reduced the shot to 3/4oz without changing anything else.

Now that I'm at the bottom of my WSF jug and none is to be found anywhere, I'm thinking of using my jug of WW 231 as a substitute. I use the 231 for 45auto but since I'm not currently attending run 'n gun matches with handguns I am thinking of enlisting my 231 to the cause.

Looking at the powder charts, WW231 sits right under Alliant 20/28 so, what do ya'll think? Anyone try this before?

Thanks!
This is why the burn rate charts SHOULD NOT be used as reference to similarities between
two powders. W-231 MAY be shown next to 20/28 in the charts, but that doesn't mean that they have very similar burn rates. Fact is that they DO NOT. W-231 has a burning rate very near Red Dot, or AA #2, while 20/28 has a burning rate very near Universal or Unique, although being denser.

First off, no two charts agree with one another. Depends on the author of the chart where some powders are, or are not placed. No consistency there.

For the OP's benefit, W-231 has no place in 20 ga. shot shells. Additionally, it NEVER has been recommended for ANY shot shell of any gauge, that I am aware of.

DLM
 

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D L Marcum said:
gc4895 said:
Seems we live in days of many clays to break and little powder to do it with.

I only shoot skeets. My preferred load (in fact, the only load I have ever done in 20ga) uses WW WSF with 7/8oz. I have since seen the error of my ways and reduced the shot to 3/4oz without changing anything else.

Now that I'm at the bottom of my WSF jug and none is to be found anywhere, I'm thinking of using my jug of WW 231 as a substitute. I use the 231 for 45auto but since I'm not currently attending run 'n gun matches with handguns I am thinking of enlisting my 231 to the cause.

Looking at the powder charts, WW231 sits right under Alliant 20/28 so, what do ya'll think? Anyone try this before?

Thanks!
This is why the burn rate charts SHOULD NOT be used as reference to similarities between
two powders. W-231 MAY be shown next to 20/28 in the charts, but that doesn't mean that they have very similar burn rates. Fact is that they DO NOT. W-231 has a burning rate very near Red Dot, or AA #2, while 20/28 has a burning rate very near Universal or Unique, although being denser.

First off, no two charts agree with one another. Depends on the author of the chart where some powders are, or are not placed. No consistency there.

For the OP's benefit, W-231 has no place in 20 ga. shot shells. Additionally, it NEVER has been recommended for ANY shot shell of any gauge, that I am aware of.

DLM
DLM is exactly right about the comparative burn rates, and you should probably just throw that chart away.

I have used W231 since I started hand loading .38 Special and 45 ACP in 1980, always in the same role that I would use Red Dot, or even Bullseye. I to have never seen it used in shots he'll loads of any gauge.

A couple of years ago I had a lot of TiteWad and a lot of empty 38 cases to load for some new to me old revolvers. I called Hodgdon and asked that since TiteWad and TiteGroup were right next to each other on the Hodgdon chart, could I use TiteWad in the 38's?

The answer was no, and when I asked why, the explanation was "It's just not a good pistol powder, that's why we have TiteGroup"
 

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Seems we live in days of many clays to break and little powder to do it with.

I only shoot skeets. My preferred load (in fact, the only load I have ever done in 20ga) uses WW WSF with 7/8oz. I have since seen the error of my ways and reduced the shot to 3/4oz without changing anything else.

Now that I'm at the bottom of my WSF jug and none is to be found anywhere, I'm thinking of using my jug of WW 231 as a substitute. I use the 231 for 45auto but since I'm not currently attending run 'n gun matches with handguns I am thinking of enlisting my 231 to the cause.

Looking at the powder charts, WW231 sits right under Alliant 20/28 so, what do ya'll think? Anyone try this before?

Thanks!
I use 14.0 gr. ww-231 - 7/8 oz. shot in 20ga. 1230 fps chrono @ 10' from muzzle clay buster wads CB-1078-20 .
 

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Seems we live in days of many clays to break and little powder to do it with.

I only shoot skeets. My preferred load (in fact, the only load I have ever done in 20ga) uses WW WSF with 7/8oz. I have since seen the error of my ways and reduced the shot to 3/4oz without changing anything else.

Now that I'm at the bottom of my WSF jug and none is to be found anywhere, I'm thinking of using my jug of WW 231 as a substitute. I use the 231 for 45auto but since I'm not currently attending run 'n gun matches with handguns I am thinking of enlisting my 231 to the cause.

Looking at the powder charts, WW231 sits right under Alliant 20/28 so, what do ya'll think? Anyone try this before?

Thanks!
Midsouth shooters supply has WSF in stock. They also have a few other powders suitable for 20 gauge.
 

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By the looks of it he loaded some up and checked it with his chronograph. Good way to blow stuff up.
That's what I am thinking. But who knows maybe he sent it in to be tested. Just want to know. Maybe prevent someone from making a huge mistake.
I know there are loads using 700x in 20 gauge. But only if you use a federal hull. There were loads using Red Dot. But they have been pulled. Pressure issues?
Lyman had data using WSF in 28 gauge. Winchester said not to use because of pressure issues. The list goes on.
 

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Universal, International, 20/28, Unique, and many other powders are NOT available at present, so there is no point in discussing them as a possible. What has been recently available is Longshot. Which will work for 20 gauge Target shells, 17.0 grains will yield a 1240 fps velocity. I will note that it's a bit dirty but currently you either work with what you can find or you just don't shoot. Per the description for Longshot it's a powder intended to be most efficient with heavier shot charges, so it's not a good choice for 3/4 ounce 20 gauge loads. Note, if you can find any Universal will make a very nice 3/4 ounce 20 gauge shells. Longshot can also be used for 3/4 ounce loads in the 28 gauge and at Target speeds you get another nice shooting shell that is just a bit dirty. The most troubling issue with using Longshot for either 20 or 28 gauge is dished crimps so for the 20 use 3/4 ounce wads and you'll get a good looking crimp. With the 28 gauge you just have to accept dished crimps.
 

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Universal, International, 20/28, Unique, and many other powders are NOT available at present, so there is no point in discussing them as a possible.
They might not be available to you but all of those have been available at one time or another this year in my area.

They are all very applicable and should be discussed so the OP has information for when he sees one of those for sale.
 

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Doofighter, that is a very good point you make.

Pennskeet, what area in PA do you live. If it's Western PA I just might head there and pay Joel Etchen a visit. BTW, names of any shops who have Universal in stock would be much appreciated.
 

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I'm currently using 231 in 3/4oz 20ga loads. I had a couple pounds and a friend gave me a couple pounds and my pistol days are over. TheAmerican Rifleman had an article some time back with 3/4oz. 12 ga loads and they used 231 in their data. I looked at some 2028 3/4 data and loaded 231essentially the same and got the same ballistics. I have no means to test pressure but I'm comfortable where I'm at.
 
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