They appear to be BRNO "ZP" model double shotguns; the numbers are the date codes.

Here's a possible timeline on the ZP Models.
They were sidelocks with coil springs and I think the toplever spring was also of the coil variety. They had the Purdey Nose and were choked extra full left and modified right.
AFAIK the Models were ZP 47, ZP 49, ZP 50, etc(ZP749??). and they surfaced after WWII and up till 1950.
I think the "ZP" stands for Zbrojovka Praga as a possible reference or name resurrection. The Communist were in control in 1948 so arms after then should be marked "Narodny Podnik" / State Enterprises when Brno/CZ experienced nationalization.
I'm not sure just how long the "N.P. or Narodny Podnik" stamp was used but even today it can be found on Czechvar, the "Preminum Czech Lager".

The different Czech Zbrojovka companies:
Karel Bubla founded the South Bohemian Arms Company, Jihoceska Zbrojovka, in 1919 to make the 6.35mm Fox pistols by hand and mechanization didn't occur until 1920.
The ops was moved to Strakonice in early 1921.
Ceska Zbrojovka(CZ - Bohemian Arms Company), Prague was formed in 1922 by uniting Jihoceska Zbrojovka and the Hubertus Company, (not sure of).
At this union/founding of CZ, the government shifted the pistol making operation of Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka, (ZB - Czechoslovakian Arms Company), Brno to CZ at Prague, which made tools as of 1928, bicycles in 1930 and motorcycles in 1934.
In 1955, the auto and motorcycle effort, a company known as Ceske Zavody Motocyklove was formed - I think a name change of an earlier sporting division under the Zavody name.
ZB was formed in 1923 to absorb/purchase the government entity of Ceskoslovenske Zavody na Vyrobu Zbrani(CSZ -Czechoslovakian Factory for Military Products.

BRNO, was a small arms factory/refurb facility (1919) to refurb Mauser and Mannlicher rifles.
IIRC, CZ-N.P.(Ceska Zbrojovka Narodny Podnik(State Entity/Enterprise) makes sporting weapons in BRNO and some of their gunsmiths were instrumental in beginning the ZP Side by Side series.

They book @ $500-$600, today.

.

 

Crisco,

Thanks for the interesting history of Zbrojovka Brno. I was not aware of the auto and motorcycle effort.....somewhat similar to the Skoda story although the latter was more successful in the automotive field.

eodvic69,

During the early 1970's the Brno ZH (O/U) and ZP (SxS) series were imported into the States by Dan Wesson. The ZP series was catalogued by Frankonia Jagd until the early 2000's and enjoyed a strong following in the European market.

FWIW, the ZP series were surprisingly well built for the money. The 1985 price was DM725,- or about US$253.-. That bought a genuine sidelock action SxS powered by coil springs, double triggers, chopper lump barrels with double underlocking lugs and a hidden third fastener. The top lever also has a coil spring. The sidelocks, however, lack an intercepting safety sear. While the Brno catalogue lists the right barrel as being 1/2 choked and the left barrel as 3/4 choked, it also claims an "average coverage of 60 - 70%" at 35 meters with No. 3 shot (3.5mm dia.) which is closer to modified and full. I've found no mention of other choke choices.

The various ZP models are:
ZP-45:16ga/70mm (2-3/4"), 700mm/27-9/16" barrels, extractors
ZP-47:12 ga/70mm (2-3/4"), 720mm/28-11/32" barrels, extractors
ZP-49:12 ga/70mm (2-3/4"), 720mm/28-11/32" barrels, auto-ejectors
ZP-50:16 ga/70mm (2-3/4"), 700mm/27-9/16" barrels, auto ejectors.

Models ZP-47 and ZP-49 could be ordered with 780mm/30-45/64" or 810mm/31-57/64" long barrels. All models were available with either an English grip or pistol grip stock with cheekpiece and three different degrees of finish, plain blued, blued with hunting scene (stamped or etched?) or blued with 50% scroll.

Montani Semper Liberi

 

Thank you all very much for your assistance. I am an avid gun collector, but until 2 weeks ago never owned a shotgun (Or knew much about them). I finally took the time to look at one carefully, and fell in love with side by sides. 2 weeks later, I own 4 of them.

Based on your description, I am fairly sure that the two CZs I have are: ZP47 models. I still have not been able to find a value reference for them. Any ideas?

Victor

 

[I still have not been able to find a value reference for them. Any ideas?]

At the risk of creating another echo, I'll repeat part of what I posted above:

"They book @ $500-$600, today."

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CriscoKid,

Thank you very much. I guess that I had convinced myself that what I had where ZP49s or 149s (The only ones I found on the Blue Book of Gun Values) that I completely missed the fact that you had included the ZP47 model in your posting.

My plan is to keep only one and trade the other one and since they are both in similar condition wanted to find out which one will be more desirable. After reading some of the comments, I might end up keeping both. Thanks again.

I have another question wich will Once again show my lack of "Shotgun knowlege", What exactly is the "3rd hidden locking log" that this shotguns have?

Vic

 

eodvic69,

The Purdey type hidden third fastener is a type of top extension which is intended to reinforce the under-barrel bolting and hold the barrels securely to the bar of the action. It is located between the barrels at the breech end and is either positioned above the extractor or extends through slots in the ejectors into the standing breech of the frame. It is secured by a rotating wedge.

The Dolls head extension and the Greener extension with cross bolt also fall into the catagory of third fasteners. FWIW, modern steels and manufacturing methods have made the efficiency of such extensions questionable. Gough Thomas, the late, noted engineer and shooting editor of the British publication, " Shooting Times and Country Magazine" went on record as stating that, "I have fired an ordinary 12-bore secured with nothing more than two turns of half-inch cellophane tape, which were evidently adequate without any help from the hands.". This supports the comments of a long deceased friend, mechanical engineer, ardent trap shooter and gun dealer who claimed that due to the long water table of the Winchester Model 21, the underbolt could be eliminated and the gun could be adequately secured to the standing breech during firing by a common rubber band! Food for thought......

Montani Semper Liberi

 

Hi gents,

Quick introduction: I am a South African looking to purchase my first shotgun. I have come across your posts because there is the exact same SxS Brno shotgun available at my local gun shop. (Thanks very much for your informative comments!)

As a "newbie" I have searched and watch Youtube videos on inspection techniques and what to look out for on a secondhand gun. I bought snap caps and checked that the ejectors are working etc. The rib, barrels and stock are clean. Action is tight and it looks like it has not been abused at all etc.

However, I would like to know if the safety must automatically engage once the barrel has been broken and loaded? This guns safety does NOT engage automatically after opening. You have to go and move the selector to get it on safe. Im not sure if that is supposed to work like that or not?

I can remember from my fathers SxS double that the safety engaged automatically, albeit a different make and model, I would just like to know if the Brno should do the same as I have come up short looking for answers on the net. Everything else looks great on the gun, your help & comments would be appreciated!

Regards

Nathan

 

Pump and auto shotguns do NOT have an "auto-safety". (Are pump and auto shooters more "gun-safe"?) SXS and O/U clay targets do not want an "auto safety", and clays guns do not have them.

 

Here is a bit more detail, from a FAQ I wrote up back around 2000:

A bit of the history of Ceska Zbrojovka and Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka (and Ceska Zavody Motocyklove) for anyone interested

Ceska Zbrojovka
The company we know as Ceska Zbrojovka was founded in 1919 in Pilsin, as the Jihoceska Zbrojovka (South Bohemian Arms Factory). It moved in 1921 to a new factory in Strakonice, and in 1922 it merged with the Hubertus Factory and changed its name to Ceska Zbrojovka (Bohemian Arms Factory). Its trademark is "CZ", where the "Z" is inside the loop of the "C" and the "C" is in a circle. Ceska Zbrojovka was the sole supplier of handguns to the Czech military from 1926 to 1954 (and possibly beyond). Among the military pistols produced by Ceska Zbrojovka are the Vz-24, V-27, Vz-36/45, Vz-38, Vz-50 & Vz-70, and the Vz-52. (Note: "Vz" is the abbreviation for "Vzor", or "Model").

Ceska Zbrojovka was preparing to move from Strakonice to Uhersky Brod in 1939 when Germany invaded Czechoslovakia and seized the factory. During the Occupation, Ceska Zbrojovka was owned by (read "expropriated to") the Reichswerke Herman Goring (RWGH) and their production was dedicated to the Third Reich. During WWII, Ceska Zbrojovka remained at in Strakonice and continued to make pistols for the Third Reich. Germany used a number of Czech Vz-24's, Vz-27's (as the "Pistole Modell 27") and Vz-38's (as the model "P.39(t)"). Pistols made during the Occupation can be found marked "Bohmische Waffenfabrik A. G. Prag". Ceska Zbrojovka also produced parts for the Walther P.38, and such parts will have the code "fnh" and the Waffenamt "WaA 76". Ceska Zbrojovka was considered for production of the P.38 during WWII, but whether they actually produced any complete pistols is a matter of dispute. This subject is clouded by the post-war (1946) production of some P.38's by Ceska Zbrojovka using parts and salvaged pistols, and P.38's marked "Vz-46" are known to exist.

In 1955 Ceska Zbrojovka finally moved to Uhersky Brod and the Strakonice factory was turned over to the Ceska Zavody Motocyklove to produce motorcycles. As of 1999, Ceska Zbrojovka is still in operation and produces pistols such as the Vz-75, Vz-82, and Vz83 and sub-machineguns like the Vz-61 (Scorpion) and the Vz-83. It now also produces sporting rifles, O/U shotguns, and markets Huglu side by side shotguns under the Ceska Zbrojovka name.

Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka
Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka was founded in 1918 in the city of Brno, acquired Mauser's tooling to produce Model 98 rifles, and began production of M98 Mauser rifles. Its trademark was the letter "Z", inside a rifled bore. This trademark originally belonged to the Praga Zbrojovka whose assets were purchased by Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka in 1926. As Ceska Zbrojovka had the "lock" on Czech military pistol contracts, so Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka was the sole supplier of long arms to the Czech military. Probably the most well-known rifle produced by Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka is the Vz-24. With Germany in general and Mauser in particular banned from producing military arms, Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka moved into the void and became one of the major exporters of small arms during the inter-War years.

Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka was also occupied during WWII, and was expropriated to the Reichswerke Herman Goring (RWGH) and their production was also dedicated to the Third Reich. Rifles produced by Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka for the Third Reich will be found with the manufacturer's codes "dot" (Brunn plant), "dou" (Bystrica plant), and "dov" (Vsetin plant). One often ignored fact is the British BREN light machinegun is a Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka design, and was produced by the Royal Arms factory in England under license from Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka.

Folks frequently confuse the trademarks of these companies - a situation not helped by the fact the country code for Czechoslovakia is also "CZ". The place name "Brno" is also frequently misused as a company identifier for Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka, possibly because few non-Czech speakers want to attempt to pronounce "Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka". But be that as it may, the name "Brno" came into such common usage that it was utilized as a product name after the Communist take-over of Czechoslovakia. Speaking of which…

With the Communist take-over in the late 1940's both Ceska Zbrojovka and Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka ceased to exist, at least as we think of them as companies. Rather they became State owned manufacturing facilities ("Narodni Podnik", or "National Enterprise"). At his point it becomes unclear the degree to which commercial firearm markings indicate what factory was involved in the production of the firearm. At some point the manufacturing facility in Brno was renamed to Zbrojovka Brno (Brno Arms). The manufacturing facility in Uhersky Brod became a member of the Zbrojovka Brno Narodni Podnik in 1965. At this point the firearms produced at Uhersky Brod were also marked (I won't say "used the trademark") "Brno".

I think it's important to note here that while these were still physically different manufacturing facilities, both were a part of the same National Enterprise. That's an important distinction since what we, in a capitalistic society, think of as "companies" and "trade marks" either do not exist or have different meanings in a Socialist State.

With the deterioration and eventual dissolution of the Soviet Union private enterprise again came to Czechoslovakia. The National Enterprise located at Uhersky Brod is once more "Ceska Zbrojovka", and appears to be well on the road to private ownership. It even has a new trademark; the outline of a pistol in a circle.

Following the Second World War, Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka produced few arms - it began the manufacture of information and communications devices. In 1989, it was restructured and reorganized. The change reached a head in 1995 when it emerged as Zbrojovka Brno (a joint stock company) and resumed larger scale production of sporting rifles and shotguns. Which brings us to the second trademark of the reformed Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka - "ZB".

As of 18 May 1995, Zbrojovka Brno/Brno Arms was still in operation and producing fine shotguns, rifles, pistols, and airguns. Individual shareholders held 50.43% of its stock, with the remainder of its capitalization provided by governmental entities. Reportedly, 40% of its production went to 52 countries worldwide. Zbrojovka Brno used "ZB", the letter "Z" inside a rifled bore, "Brno Arms", and "Arms Brno" among its trademarks. As of 1999 Zbrojovka Brno had ceased to exist and the last facility it occupied was boarded up and empty.

Here are some suggested books either concerning Czech firearms, or having good sections on Czech arms:

"Czech Firearms and Ammunition", by Dolink, Karlicky, and Vacha
"Know Your Czechoslovakian Pistols" by Berger
"AXIS Pistols", by Jan Still

On the subject of Zbrojovka Brno, here are some photos of guns I've owned over the years (note the "Z", inside the rifled bore trademark):

Prices are all over the place. Both gun were obtained at auction. I paid $575 for the O/U and $266 for the SxS.

 

I see a 78 and a 64 on the water tables, are these the date of manufacture?

Year of proof.