I could really use a second gun for women to use. Im thinking of a 20 or even a 28 gauge semi auto. Any recommendations on a reasonably priced decent quality gun? Also with a 20ga should i still stick with 28"? Is a 26" much louder? Primary use is clay plinking and possibly hunting.
robbor
Although it's dangerous to make general statements about women, here goes....
Some time ago I picked up a used 20-ga Remington 1100 with the idea of shortening the stock for my 5'-0" wife who has no more than a passing interest in shooting. I found a replacement stock, cut it down as short as possible and refinished it to match the fore end while saving the original stock. Since then I've introduced four women to clay shooting with it, from my wife to a 5'-11" friend (original stock). Not a bad set-up for a total investment of $550. And a bonus - the original stock fits me well enough to discover that its a pleasant upland gun to carry all day.
Some time ago I picked up a used 20-ga Remington 1100 with the idea of shortening the stock for my 5'-0" wife who has no more than a passing interest in shooting. I found a replacement stock, cut it down as short as possible and refinished it to match the fore end while saving the original stock. Since then I've introduced four women to clay shooting with it, from my wife to a 5'-11" friend (original stock). Not a bad set-up for a total investment of $550. And a bonus - the original stock fits me well enough to discover that its a pleasant upland gun to carry all day.
The very best youth/ladies shotgun would be a 28 gauge 0/U or side by side with a 13 1/2 length of pull,,,to the end of a soft high tech recoil pad. 26" barrels are first choice, but not critical.
"Small" guns are far less intimidating to women and children. Most of the recoil is distributed between the ears of a beginner, anyway,,,so the use of a 12 Gauge with ultra lite loads is fine in theory but poor in practice,,,because they fear the "big" gun. A 20 gauge is better, but a 28 would be best.
A .410 gives out the least "fear" factor, but is so hard to hit anything with you loose the wonderful "motivation" effect that smoking clays gives anyone, especially a beginning lady shooter.
Whatever the gun, it must be short, light,,,and cannot produce
either noticeable blast or recoil. I own about a half dozen youth/ladies guns, and the RRL 28 is by far and away the best for the purpose, with a youth model 20 gauge SKB gas autoloader coming in second.
"Small" guns are far less intimidating to women and children. Most of the recoil is distributed between the ears of a beginner, anyway,,,so the use of a 12 Gauge with ultra lite loads is fine in theory but poor in practice,,,because they fear the "big" gun. A 20 gauge is better, but a 28 would be best.
A .410 gives out the least "fear" factor, but is so hard to hit anything with you loose the wonderful "motivation" effect that smoking clays gives anyone, especially a beginning lady shooter.
Whatever the gun, it must be short, light,,,and cannot produce
either noticeable blast or recoil. I own about a half dozen youth/ladies guns, and the RRL 28 is by far and away the best for the purpose, with a youth model 20 gauge SKB gas autoloader coming in second.
If you reload I'd say the twenty. You could make up some 3/4 oz loads that will cycle the gun and then work up into twenty gauge target loads. I beleave Remington has managed recoil loads.
My wife is an experienced shooter with handicap 12 gauge loads. But we did get her a Beretta 391 youth model with a 26" barrel. For skeet, hunting, and five stand
1. It's already cut for the majority of women. Can be shimmed. and is easily modified with a bolt closer and bolt cocker from Briley
2. it's light so it doesn't fatigue them. and a little weight in the stock helps with recoil.
My wife is an experienced shooter with handicap 12 gauge loads. But we did get her a Beretta 391 youth model with a 26" barrel. For skeet, hunting, and five stand
1. It's already cut for the majority of women. Can be shimmed. and is easily modified with a bolt closer and bolt cocker from Briley
2. it's light so it doesn't fatigue them. and a little weight in the stock helps with recoil.
I would suggest a gas operated auto in 20 Ga. As stated above a Beretta allows generic stock changes in a few minutes. This is far cheaper than a full blown custom stocked gun for a beginner, let then try and see that they like shooting before making a large investment, but still allows enough of fitment to the shooter so they won't get beat up with a poor fit. I suggest the 20 Ga for the price of ammo and guns. A 28 Ga Franchi or Benelli are a lot of money compared to a used Remington 1100/ 11-87 or a 390/391 Beretta. Also at 11.00 a box for Winchester 28 Ga at wal-mart, the 20 is far cheaper.
It would be very difficult to make a generalized statement about what is best for all women, but I can share that my wife really likes here Mossberg 500 Youth Model in 20-gauge. She's only 5'1" and has very small hands, so anything larger was difficult to handle. So, might be worth checking out.
A 20 gauge for women? I don't know, I use 20's on doves with good reliability, but don't you think it would be marginal on women?
Wait, what's the question again?
Wait, what's the question again?
I would second SuperXOne's recommendation of the SKB gas operated semi-auto. I bought one ( SKB XL-900) for my 11 yo daughter and cut the stock down. It is just a touch over 13" Length of pull with a 5/8" Limbsaver pad. It came with a 28" full choke barrel, but I had it cut down to 22" . There is no longer any choke in the barrel, but it is fine for skeet, and I would not hesitate to use it for hand thrown clays and close bird hunting. It shoots very soft and functions perfectly with light target loads. It's a fun little gun to shoot. They are no longer produced, so you will have to buy used. Here is a link to a good one on gunbroker for pictures. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =175310946
That one is just like the one I bought my daughter. The SKB's typically are a little less than a used 1100. I think they are a little better design than the 1100 because there are no rubber gas rings (steel and nylon), and the magazine tube is stainless steel. They also have a nicely engraved alloy receiver.
That one is just like the one I bought my daughter. The SKB's typically are a little less than a used 1100. I think they are a little better design than the 1100 because there are no rubber gas rings (steel and nylon), and the magazine tube is stainless steel. They also have a nicely engraved alloy receiver.
I think the 20 for women and kids is just the best. 28 would work, but the economics are pretty stiff for factory fodder. An 1100 is a good one but there are a slew of others. Barrel length is a real good consideration. I would say get the longest you can and start looking for a longer one. The reason. It's hard to get a long tube stopped once you get it moving. If you teach and illustrate the fundamentals of swing and follow through, you have just saved yourself and your student a pile of trouble down the road. You can always get a shorter barrel once your charge has put some time behind the gun.
I would say no not at all. I don't know where people come up with the idea that a 20Ga is under powder and all that crap. I can shoot my 20 Ga in sporting clays and anything inside of 40 yards is fare game. I shoot the same payload out of my 12 Ga. It's just like with the ladies, it's not the size, it's how you use it!phideaux_2003 said:
I know several women that I'd trade in a heartbeat for a nice 20-ga shotgun.phideaux_2003 said:
Some of them I'm related to... but maybe not for long if they ever see this post.
I shoot with a large variety of retired folks here in FL - two women in particular, both shoot 8.5 to 9# 12 gauge guns with no problems - their guns FIT, they shoot 1oz or lighter loads and can outshoot most men their age.................
The point is, so many folks think a 20 is the gun to get for women - the answer is........"only if it FITS"........... a 12. loaded down is more pleasant to shoot than a light 20 especially if it doesn't fit
For lowest recoil, a Remington 1100 in 28 or 410 with a mag-cap weight of 8oz would be the softest shooting
The point is, so many folks think a 20 is the gun to get for women - the answer is........"only if it FITS"........... a 12. loaded down is more pleasant to shoot than a light 20 especially if it doesn't fit
For lowest recoil, a Remington 1100 in 28 or 410 with a mag-cap weight of 8oz would be the softest shooting
Can't be said too often. A shotgun for a woman has to be made to fit. And getting it to fit just may cost you as much as the shotgun.
I recently introduced my wife to skeet with a 20-ga 11-87. Bought it second hand with a custom buttstock made for a woman, the first owner.
But even that doesn't fit my wife, so it's getting the monte carlo reduced.
It looks a little funny, but there's no way a classic American butt stock is going to allow her to be anything but miserable.
(I like this little shotgun so much, if she decides she's not that interested in skeet after all, I'm going to restock it for myself.)
I recently introduced my wife to skeet with a 20-ga 11-87. Bought it second hand with a custom buttstock made for a woman, the first owner.
But even that doesn't fit my wife, so it's getting the monte carlo reduced.
It looks a little funny, but there's no way a classic American butt stock is going to allow her to be anything but miserable.
(I like this little shotgun so much, if she decides she's not that interested in skeet after all, I'm going to restock it for myself.)
I would recommend an auto-loading shotgun with a 26" barrel or perhaps a lighter O/U or SxS and use low-recoil shells. The O/U or SxS would probably get 28" barrels. These would be a good starting point, in my opinion, and then you could fine tune the fit from there.
The main issues my fiancee has had with my various guns has been the weight, the LoP, and the recoil. We initially purchased a 20 ga for her and I added a stock labeled for youth and women (as opposed to just labeled for youth), and then we added a recoil reducing pad to the stock. This seems to fit her fine, but the weight and recoil with standard shells are still an issue.
Her next shotgun will likely be one of the above-mentioned, but perhaps one designed to be light weight, ala the Citori Feather, one of the Benelli variations, etc. I understand that many prefer the feel of a heavier gun for recoil reduction, faster follow-up shots, and what have you, but, at least for my better half, if she can't hold it up after a few stands of clays, then she's either not going to be shooting any more, or she's just not going to be hitting much, so those things no longer matter, and her fun factor has significantly diminished.
The low recoil ammunition I've tried has basically no kick - it's actually quite surprising if you haven't tried it already. Additionally, the recoil is felt a lot less, in my experience, if the gun fits the shooter properly. Along those lines, if you're going for the 20 ga simply because of recoil, I'd say go out and shoot a box of Winchester or some other low-recoil 12 ga shells and see what you think before you make the commitment. In all honesty, I believe I'll be getting the lil' lady a 12 next so she can have the benefit of extra pellets and the 12 ga low-recoil rounds are much easier found than the 20s in my neck of the woods. If, on the other hand, the lady simply prefers the slimmer and quicker feel of the typically 20 ga, and the balance it offers as between the perennial 12 and the rarer sub-gauges (like myself), then I suppose this point is moot.
Best of luck.
Gunr
The main issues my fiancee has had with my various guns has been the weight, the LoP, and the recoil. We initially purchased a 20 ga for her and I added a stock labeled for youth and women (as opposed to just labeled for youth), and then we added a recoil reducing pad to the stock. This seems to fit her fine, but the weight and recoil with standard shells are still an issue.
Her next shotgun will likely be one of the above-mentioned, but perhaps one designed to be light weight, ala the Citori Feather, one of the Benelli variations, etc. I understand that many prefer the feel of a heavier gun for recoil reduction, faster follow-up shots, and what have you, but, at least for my better half, if she can't hold it up after a few stands of clays, then she's either not going to be shooting any more, or she's just not going to be hitting much, so those things no longer matter, and her fun factor has significantly diminished.
The low recoil ammunition I've tried has basically no kick - it's actually quite surprising if you haven't tried it already. Additionally, the recoil is felt a lot less, in my experience, if the gun fits the shooter properly. Along those lines, if you're going for the 20 ga simply because of recoil, I'd say go out and shoot a box of Winchester or some other low-recoil 12 ga shells and see what you think before you make the commitment. In all honesty, I believe I'll be getting the lil' lady a 12 next so she can have the benefit of extra pellets and the 12 ga low-recoil rounds are much easier found than the 20s in my neck of the woods. If, on the other hand, the lady simply prefers the slimmer and quicker feel of the typically 20 ga, and the balance it offers as between the perennial 12 and the rarer sub-gauges (like myself), then I suppose this point is moot.
Best of luck.
Gunr
Regardless of gauge gun fit, very light loads and good ear protection are critical for the first time woman shooter. Shells for ga 28 are very expensive and if eventual hunting for waterfowl or turkeys is a possibility then it should be out of the mix.
A light 20 gauge with 7/8 oz target loads can have a lot more recoil than a 12 ga with low velosity 1 oz loads. yes it will be heavy at first but it will not have the recoil.
I would get a Beretta 12 ga 3901 RL with a 28" barrel and I would get a good aftermarket pad on it and consider adding some pitch.
My experience is that if a woman takes to shooting and hunting with a 20 ga they will want a 12 in about a month or two. I have seen it again and again. Most of the time women need a shorter stock, a higher comb, more pitch and a little toe out on the recoil pad. The Beretta RL autolaoder stoocks have a shim system that will help with cast and drop.
It might be a good idea to learn as much as you can about teaching shotgunning. Women are fast learners and learn a little differently than most guys.
Good luck.
A light 20 gauge with 7/8 oz target loads can have a lot more recoil than a 12 ga with low velosity 1 oz loads. yes it will be heavy at first but it will not have the recoil.
I would get a Beretta 12 ga 3901 RL with a 28" barrel and I would get a good aftermarket pad on it and consider adding some pitch.
My experience is that if a woman takes to shooting and hunting with a 20 ga they will want a 12 in about a month or two. I have seen it again and again. Most of the time women need a shorter stock, a higher comb, more pitch and a little toe out on the recoil pad. The Beretta RL autolaoder stoocks have a shim system that will help with cast and drop.
It might be a good idea to learn as much as you can about teaching shotgunning. Women are fast learners and learn a little differently than most guys.
Good luck.
Don't forget to check for eye dominance with a new shooter. It is more common for the gals to be cross eyed dominant than the guys.
Another gun to consider is the new Beretta Xplor - a friend has one he uses for sporting. It's a lightweight 12 (about 6.5#), but with the pad and hydraulic recoil system it tames the recoil VERY well. It handles light 1oz loads easily
marquette:
I have over 25 years of experince teaching women and kids to shoot and helping them find a gun that fits. I hunt, shoot and teach shooting with women and they ask me to check gun fit when they find a problem when we teach together. My chromosomal make up includes an X and a y, but I have worked hard to learn about gun fit and in particular about teaching women to shoot. I have listened to many women shooters and gun fitters. I do not think that my lack of an X chromosome interferes with my ability to respond to the questions asked here.
Many women still shoot ill fitting shotguns and have been told to shoot a youth model gun. With some often used 20 ga youth shotguns the comb is so low that women cannot see the rib at all. 70% of women shooters would substantially benefit from a proper gun fitting. Much of what you are told at the gun club by shooters is based on their personal experience and a good percentage is wrong.
I have over 25 years of experince teaching women and kids to shoot and helping them find a gun that fits. I hunt, shoot and teach shooting with women and they ask me to check gun fit when they find a problem when we teach together. My chromosomal make up includes an X and a y, but I have worked hard to learn about gun fit and in particular about teaching women to shoot. I have listened to many women shooters and gun fitters. I do not think that my lack of an X chromosome interferes with my ability to respond to the questions asked here.
Many women still shoot ill fitting shotguns and have been told to shoot a youth model gun. With some often used 20 ga youth shotguns the comb is so low that women cannot see the rib at all. 70% of women shooters would substantially benefit from a proper gun fitting. Much of what you are told at the gun club by shooters is based on their personal experience and a good percentage is wrong.
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