The Yamamoto Pointer, Mida, Nikko, Nikko/Charles Daly Pointer, Kodensha and Kawaguchiya (this is the KFC imported by LaPaloma Marketing) A5 clones were made when the Japanese made a run at the A5 market here in the US and some guns were sold through Golden Eagle, Kyowa-Boeki-Bussan and others. Not much is known of these front companies involvement in this matter since all records were secret and then destroyed. However, I think that Miroku put the stop (maybe they were behind the whole thing from the first) on these guns when Browning started to talk to them about building the A5 and other guns.

Parts for these clones are generally not interchangable and will not fit A5s. I know of no source for these cloned parts. The workmanship on these guns was pretty good. I have a Nikko/CD and a Yamamoto Auto-Pointer.

 

Thanks.The Pointer in particular,is quite often seen on the used gun racks in this country,usually for less than a Browning.

 

A5guy,

I saw a Chas Daly Pointer in a shop yesterday. What price range do you think they should fall in assuming there are no substantial issues with condition?

Jeff

 

Jeff,
I have a Charles Daly/Yamamoto Auto Pointer 12ga. that I paid $220 for including shipping and transfer fee. In the shops around here an A-5 in similar condition would be priced in the $400-$450 range.
There are three listed now on GB starting @$400, 499, and 700. they have been there for a while. The only one sold on that site in the last 3 months went for the buy now price of $275.

hope this helps

berg

 

I bought mine about 5 years ago. The Yamamoto Pointer cost me $175 and the Midda (?)/Charles Daly was $200 and has two barrels, skeet and full choke. The chokes on the Daly are marked like their O/U guns with the skeet choke marked "SS".

 

I went back to take another look today,I think I will buy one of the KFC autos.One has a longer barrel (about 28") with a fixed full choke,and the other about 24" with a external choke/shot collar marked SC.What does SC mean?.I figured it meant skeet choke.

 

There's an interesting A5 "clone" on Gunbroker, a NIB Herter's model with an image of George Herter on the receiver in place of John Browning. Here is the link:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... m=75246636

 

A5guy, you need one of these!

Jeff

 

That Herters gun is made by the same company that made the KFC,the KFC I am wanting to buy also had the word 'Pine' stamped on the barrel and receiver bottom.

 

I brought the tidier of the two KFC autos,it has a 23" barrel with a shot collar about 2" long so 25" overall barrel length.I am thinking this was made as a skeet gun as it has a skeet choke on it.I also learned from one of the shop employees,that this gun was one of a number the gunshop owner brought in Japan on a recent gunbuying trip there.Apparently the 2nd hand gun market is pretty small in Japan,due I guess to their very strict laws,so you can find some bargains there.

 

Will it ever end? Here's another A5 lookalike, made by Daiwa. And I thought they only made fishing reels.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... m=75365240

 

My guess is that A5guy will be able to tell us who made this gun with a Diawa name on it!

Jeff

 

The one on top is a Diawa A-500. I'll have to dig the box out when I can get to it but I think it had the same name on it that now makes Singer sewing machines. It is a very well made gun .

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That Herters gun looks like a VERY close copy of an A5. -Man that picture of 'George' instead of 'john' is too much!!
Ross

 

That daiwa with the silver receiver,is identical to my KFC,the engraving is identical.It must also be made by the Pine firearms co.

 

Been gone hunting for a week. The Diawa and Herters guns were made by Yamamoto so were the guns marketed by "Pines". In reality, Nikko and Yamamoto guns were made by the same hidden or ghost corporation.

 

I was back in the gunshop today,so had a close look at the other KFC auto they had.The barrel was different to mine,it had acier special written on it and a couple of other markings (small stars) that I assume mean choke constriction.I am guessing it was a actual Browning A5 barrel as the barrel ring looked a little different also.

 

"Acier Special" means "Special Steel" I have a FN (Fabrique Nationale) that was made in the 30's. It is an Actual A-5, not any kind of copy, and that's what it says on the barrel. I don't think it means anything, just like "proof tested" on some other older model guns. I'd say the Acier Special would be the one to get.

Look on the bottom of the barrel and see if it says (12-70) or something like that, that will tell you what gauge it is and why type of shells it was made for. Mine says 12-70 in a little oval, right below the P.V. (which will tell you it's a belgium) and the L.E.G (have no Idea....)

Matt

 

The marks that Matt refers to are the proof marks. They are required by law on any barrel made in Belgium. If the proof marks are there then I would assume that it is a real FN barrel.

If they are not there then I would suspect that the marks like Acier Special were put on there to make it look more like a real Auto-5.

Jeff

 

Most likely it is a real Browning barrel,that was a replacement for the factory barrel with the brazed-on barrel ring that probably failed.

 

I once saw a KFC barreled with a Browning barrel because the KFC tube had failed. Caerlonie is probably correct.

The ELG proof denotes that the barrel was proofed in Liege, Belgium, bye the way. 16-70 would denote a 16ga X 70mm chamber this is a 2 3/4 inch chamber. 16-65 is a 2 9/16 inch chamber.

 

"tube had failed".....sounds like someone had a bad day.

Do you know how bad the failure was?

Jeff

 

I did not see the incident but I understand that the ring that is on the barrel just cracked where it was brazed to the barrel and that the owner caught it before there was total failure.

 

Jumping in late.. sorry, but how do the Savage 720's stack up? I recently bought one in 16ga, and have yet to shoot it. Any thing to pay close attention to? Craig

 

Savage M720s are just fine. They lack the fit and finish that the Browning guns had but they perform about the same.