Cool thread. I'm too green to have anything to add, but look forward to responses.

 

Speed effects recoil, ie faster more recoil, slower less. Beyond that what speed works for you is really how well you shoot that speed. Some can shoot slow loads, other do better with standard or fast loads.

Payload reduces recoil as well. If I remember right, 1/8 oz is equal to about 100 fps. You can verify this with a recoil calculator. So a 1 1/8 at 1100 fps is equal to a 1 oz at 1200 fps for recoil.

 

sometimes a little more velocity with a bit less payload can help have a better filled out pattern.
or the way some like to state it,,, it reduces the hot core a heavier/slower payload can have.
you can 'fix' it with a choke change?

your only gonna know by using the gun on a pattern board.
at different distances.
with different chokes.

 

You won't find any clinical or scientific data to support lower payloads (and less pellets). However, 1300 fps 1 oz. loads are popular (the default load) for FITASC.

MAXIMUM LOADS - 12-gauge loads are restricted to one ounce of shot. Shot size is restricted to 7-½'s maximum (i.e., 7-½'s or 8's are fine, 9's are useless, 6's are not allowed). There is no restriction on speed (measured in FPS). If shooting a sub-gauge FITASC event, maximum loads are 7/8 ounce for 20-gauge, and 3/4 ounce for 28-gauge.

So, if you are shooting FITASC, 1-1/8 oz. loads are not allowed.

Secondarily, 1300 fps 1 oz. loads do well where slower 1 oz. loads don't have enough power to cycle some semi-autos.

Finally, let's say you load International Clays.

Hodgdon Internat'l Buy Now Rem. 209P Rem. TGT 12 20.2 6,800 LUP 1,180
Hodgdon Internat'l Buy Now Rem. 209P Rem. TGT 12 20.9 7,700 LUP 1,235
Hodgdon Internat'l Buy Now Rem. 209P Rem. TGT 12 21.4 8,900 LUP 1,290

The 1290 fps International Clays load is significantly cleaner burning than the 1180 fps load.

 

FWIW, and I'll grant it might not be much, I've found faster loads tend to disperse less for a given range. So for skeet I tend to load as slow as I can and still get reliable cycling. For sporting clays, where the distances tend to be a little longer, I load a little hotter.

But you're not really going to know much without a trip to a patterning board. As Randy mentions, sometimes to cycle a SA you load faster to make up for a reduced payload, but again that messes with your pattern.

 

I don't think there is an advantage to higher velocity lower payload; I think it's a disadvantage.

Higher velocity has the advantage of more energy at longer ranges, or for harder targets like a rabbit, but I believe you have nullified that advantage by reducing payload. For normal targets at short or moderate range there really is no advantage for the higher speed so you are just handicapping yourself by reducing payload.

 

There are all kinds of old wives tales about velocity and patterns.

The truth is, you have to pattern your gun with the loads you intend to use.

If you don't want to pattern

NOT TALKING ABOUT RECOIL.....

The overwhelming majority of shooters are not going to notice any huge performance difference between a load that has a 1,150 FPS velocity and a load going 1,300 FPS. Or the difference between a 7/8 oz. load and a 1 1/8 oz. load.

I like the 1250 to 1300 FPS 1 oz. loads. When it really gets serious 1 1/8 oz. at 1200 FPS.

 

Are these questions in regard to shooting clay, fur or feathers?

 

My 3/4 oz reloads burn better/cleaner at 1275 than they did at 1210 and they work my gas guns without issues.
With a LM choke they smoke 5-stand targets

 

Higher velocity has the advantage of more energy at longer ranges

No. Higher velocity gives you more pellet energy over the entire effective range. If you are increasing velocity for targets that are farther away, you are using higher velocities for the wrong reasons and you will probably be disappointed.

The whole point of choke, load, pellet size and velocity is to use a combination that will break every target that you properly point.....not to get lucky with the golden BB @ 60 yards.

 

DHC6,

Advantage of reloading higher velocity, lighter loads

To get back to your original question.

The advantage?

Lighter recoil and higher pellet energy. The real advantage being the lighter recoil if that is what is required. If you can handle the recoil of 1 1/8 oz. loads, there is no huge advantage to lighter, faster loads.

It's all 6" between the ears stuff and for most of us, 6" between the ears is a bad place to be.

 

they make larger pellets for a reason.
if all we had to do was speed things up for more energy we'd have had 1700 fps. #7-1/2 shot shell loads in the 50's.

 

Surprised the quantitative reason hasn't been mentioned yet. Lighter shell payloads mean you buy shot less often. Most folks are stretching out their shot supply right now.

All the rest of the variations are just matters of personal preference on what loads you are willing to get used to and trust, either for competition or for hunting.

good luck, garrisonjoe

 

Higher velocity has the advantage of more energy at longer ranges

No. Higher velocity gives you more pellet energy over the entire effective range. If you are increasing velocity for targets that are farther away, you are using higher velocities for the wrong reasons and you will probably be disappointed.

It's not an opinion that higher velocity has the advantage of more energy at longer ranges. It's a statement of fact.

 

For clay targets, I have found no advantage in higher velocity with light loads. 1150 fps actually works better in my gun than 1300fps. I have not patterned them on the board. I dont need to. My 1150 7/8 loads smoke trap targets. At 1300 fps, I get less convincing breaks. You may find the opposite with your gun where faster loads pattern better.

If you are hunting, there is an advantage to velocity provided you are not sacrificing pattern because of it.

 

It's all 6" between the ears stuff and for most of us, 6" between the ears is a bad place to be.

That is a quotable quote.

 

1oz at 1200 is nice load.
The 7/8oz trap loads at 1400 are a staple here for everything.

 

I never saw a performance difference when I dropped from 1 1/8 oz to 1 oz. I didn't push up the velocity. I changed it to save money on shot. In a 25 pound bag I can load about 400 1 oz shells or about 355 1 1/8 oz shells. Or about two boxes of shells more for the 1 oz load. More than enough reason to drop to the lighter shot load shells.

 

DEG,

What you are saying is true, that higher velocities give more pellet energy at longer ranges. But once you start shooting targets much past 40 yards, the difference is negligible.

The reason that velocities go up as the payload weight goes down, is not to break targets or kill birds farther out. The reason is, it is possible to get decent patterns with light loads at higher velocities because the amount of setback to deform the pellets in the lower layers of shot in the shotcup is less. If you can gain pellet energy that isn't ever bad. It does not mean that it is a longer range load.

Look at the 40 yard chart for both loads. At 45 yards the pellets that started off at 1,300 FPS has less energy than the 1200 FPS load at 40 yards. When I adjusted the distance on the 1300 FPS load it is actually 43 yards.......9 feet of more killing power.

Talk about diminishing returns.

Pattern density is always part of the equation, and much more important at distance than a 100 FPS increase in velocity.

 

The first reloader I bought came with a 1 1/8th ounce shot bushing and a powder bushing that threw 19 1/2 grains of Red Dot. This load kicked pretty hard and apparently didn't pattern all that well, either. Because when I found a bushing for 17 grains of Red Dot, my shooting improved considerably.

I have never reloaded for my 20 gauge. The Remington Sure-Shot 1 ounce loads seem to work pretty well in that gun because, if anything, it has better range than my 12 gauge. On one quail hunting trip, I ran out of ammo and a friend gave me some Winchester AA 7/8ths ounce loads and success, along with my confidence, dropped of markedly. Going back to the Sure Shot 1 ounce loads returned things to normal.

I'm primarily a hunter. I occasionally shoot trap, skeet, and 5-stand but only rarely. I don't shoot enough for recoil to be a factor. Only one of my shotguns has choke tubes. It only stands to reason that to maintain a pattern with the same shot density with less shot, the pattern has to be smaller. On my fixed choke guns, I can't change the pattern size. So for them, more shot at a slower speed is what works for me.

 

Let's ask Will: https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 2&t=450921 . Will Fennell gave the best answer I've read on the subject.

While it seems simple.....more pellets are better...but for me, it is a not so simple answer. Everything is about balance and trade offs. I find that a quality 1 oz load of 7.5's works best for me....YMMV. Here is why.......

First and foremost, I can't just 'forget FITASC'. Its hands down my favorite game. I've said it before....if there was enough FITASC events, I probably personally wouldn't even enter anymore English Sporting events. So, if I have to get my head wrapped around the performance of 1 oz loads for the hard targets (FITASC), then I'm not going to shoot heavier loads for the easy targets (English Sporting). In addition, I have shot the hardest targets imaginable (1st year Dubai, World FITASC 2004,2005, World English 2005, etc) with good 1 oz loads, and not found my performance was hurt by the ammo. Now, here is the first segue.....if the shells are of lower quality, I would chose 32 gram( 1 1/8th oz) loads every time. The first thing that separates high quality target loads from lower end( and price) 'promo' target loads is shot quality. The lower quality shot does not provide as good of long range patterns as premium, harder/rounder/slicker shot. If I had to shoot lower quality shells, I would do my best to fill the pattern by throwing more crappy pellets down range.

( dirty little secret or segue #2- inside about 30 yards, crappy pellets work fine. If I were on a really tight budget, I would shoot cheap promo loads inside 30 yards, and save a box of high quality 28 gram( 1 oz) 7.5's for the few targets that you see over 30 yards at your typical English Sporting shoot here in the US.)

But, I have a choice, and I choose to shoot basically the same shell all the time. I do this for confidence. I have supreme confidence in my shell. The FIOCCHI Nickel Crusher 7.5's ( 1 oz/1300 fps) give me very good, very consistent long range patterns. I have proven this shell to myself over and over again. Since my gun is fixed choke, I do, use a few, and I mean very few, FIOCCHI Interceptor Spreaders. This load feels like shooting my Crushers, since they are both 1 oz/1300 fps. The do only make them in #8's, but at the ranges I use them, shot size doesn't matter. Out of my fixed Improved Modified, they through beautiful 30"(!) patterns at 20 yards. This gives me cylinder choke performance when the course has a silly window shot or a rabbit that must be shot between 2 hay bales, or some other really close, really fast shot.

Then, of course, I can't simply discount the cumulative effect of recoil over the course of my typical multi-day championship weekend. Sure, I can take a round or 2 of 32 gram handicap trap loads, but during a typical regional championship weekend, I would be feeling the effects pretty bad by Sunday morning. My pattern testing shows that with the type of choke selection I typically use ( current gun is fixed Improved Mod in both barrels), that a quality 1 oz 7.5's pattern looks basically identical to a comparable quality 32 gram 7.5 pattern. The 32 gram load will have a few more 'flyers' around the edge, but the consistent, dependable part of the pattern will be basically the same density and size.

 

My standard Trap load is 1 ounce of #7.5 and 1275-1300 fps. When you combine a heavier shot pellet with higher velocity the result is nice hard hitting breaks way out there. As for recoil, that is why I keep a Limbsaver in my range bag.