Republican-
Here's a guess-

The warning not to use the filter for lead is not based on the filter or its pore size. It's based on the whole system, which is the reason that the warning extends to all hazardous particles. The shop-vacs will leak particulates out of the exhaust. Building a vacuum cleaner that won't leak any particulate smaller than 0.3 microns is not easy, and therefore not cheap.

--Bob

 

Republican-
Here's a guess-

The warning not to use the filter for lead is not based on the filter or its pore size. It's based on the whole system, which is the reason that the warning extends to all hazardous particles. The shop-vacs will leak particulates out of the exhaust. Building a vacuum cleaner that won't leak any particulate smaller than 0.3 microns is not easy, and therefore not cheap.

--Bob

Yeah, actually there's a whole lot more to it all...

I found this one really long thread on some lead paint renovation contractors forum about it all, and at best, it's as clear as mud. Apparently they (EPA?) just passed some new law about equipment used by contractors doing work on pre-1978 homes with lead-based paint. Seem all these guys are just as confused.

Coupla issues going on. The deal about motor exhaust is sort of a diversion. If the HEPA filter cartridge is completely sealed around the float column, or however it afixes to the inside of the canister, no unfiltered air will ever reach the motor.

The issue about the HEPA filter itself is also sorta bunk, since they don't always know just what type of machine it will be used in. Also, the Fein Turbo-II, and other vacs that are advertised as being lead dust suitable all say that to get .3 micron HEPA, you need a TWO part system, - HEPA "bag" + HEPA cartridge. This sorta implies that a HEPA pleated filter cartridge by itself isn't lead rated. Sorta of a trick on marketting if you ask me.

Funny thing is, in these threads, I saw where 3 different people E-mailed Fein to see if their Turbo-II was really lead dust rated, and if it satisify's this new law about lead dust removal. One Fein guy answered no, the other yes, and the 3rd said they wern't sure.

What became clear is, that a lot of these vac people, and HEPA filter manufacturers just don't want to screw with the liability, so they just hitch a ride on the ole ".3 micron HEPA" marketing hype, and just stamp on the ole disclaimer about lead dust and abestos warning.

Hopefully my 2-part Fein Turbo-II fitted with Fein's HEPA cartridge, and their paper bag is all the average reloader needs for cleaning up their garage, and reloading area.

Would be nice to know just how much lead dust gets airbourne when dumping new (and/or reclaim) out of the bag, into a plastic container (Tupperware, coffee can, etc), then into a plastic funnel that is stuck in on top of the tall shot bottle on a MEC 9000.

 

Here's a simple idea: USE A DUST BRUSH AND PAN. Don't over think things. Plus you won't be blowing papers and what not around with the vacuum exhaust.

 

If you must have a vac, consider a Central unit. Unit and exhaust would be well away from you.
Regards, Pete

 

Trying to understand vacuums suitable for lead, and lead dust is enough to make ones head spin.

I have both, a Fein Turbo-II (9-55-13), and a 10-gal Shop Vac QSP Contractor Series stainless, both with .3 micron HEPA cartridge filters and paper bags (drywall bag for the QSP, and Fein's regular brown paper bag for the Turbo-II). All four pieces (both HEPA cartridge and both bags) have "Warnings" on them that say do NOT use for lead, or lead dust.

So....

<snip>

Would be nice to know just how much lead dust gets airbourne when dumping new (and/or reclaim) out of the bag, into a plastic container (Tupperware, coffee can, etc), then into a plastic funnel that is stuck in on top of the tall shot bottle on a MEC 9000.

You are taking reasonable precautions with your vacuum equip. As to pouring shot into a container and then into your reloader, I go outside to pour shot from the bag into a container (I use a metal coffee can) and I don't fester about pouring shot into the reloader.

Its my guess that handling lead shot bags (which are porous) and fired hulls produces more lead dust exposure than vacuum dust issues. Best protection is to wash your hands thoroughly after handling reloading tools and components.

My main suggestion is don't fester, find out the facts: at your next annual physical exam, ask your doctor to order a lead test along with your routine blood tests. For whatever its worth, I have been reloading for 40+ years and vacuuming up my shop and loading tools without Hepa filters and my blood levels for lead are totally safe, way below any danger level. Lead contamination is more dangerous to kids than adults and I did keep my kids out of the reloading area as best I could.

 

I'm no expert, but was involved in some extensive lead exposure litigation several years back. I learned a lot about acceptable levels of lead in the blood and how one must be exposed to accumulate such levels. I won't go into specifics here, but suffice it to say the amounts and forms of lead we, as reloaders, are exposed to is not near enough for concern. (I'm speaking of lead pellets, not lead dust or smelting lead.) A major cause of this hoopla over lead exposure has been brought on by greedy plaintiff's lawyers trying to make money from the lead mining companies and any other deep pocket industry associated with them. But if you are one of those folks that believes in that propaganda, a simple blood test will indicate if you have any lead in your blood. If you do, it's probably well within the acceptable level. One form of treatment for adults is to stay away from the source of the lead for a period of time and the lead will leave your body naturally. There is a treatment for extracting heavy metals from the body known as chelation, where the lead attaches to the chleating agents and leaves the body, but this is used in high levels of lead exposure most typically in children that have eaten lead paint. Adults are not nearly as susceptible to lead exposure as children. As was mentioned above, one of the best ways to avoid ingestion of lead is to wash your hands.

 

You're right to be confused.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A filter that is marked or rated "10 micron" has some capability to capture
particles as small as 10 micrometers. However, when you see a filter marked "10
micron", you do not know exactly what this means unless you also have a
description of the test methods and standards used to determine the filter rating.
The results from the different test methods may not be comparable as their
methodology varies greatly.

The two most popular reported media ratings are a nominal micron rating (50%)
and an absolute micron rating (98.7%). A nominal rating usually means the filter's
media can capture a given percentage of particles of a stated size. For example,
a filter might be said to have a nominal rating of 50% for particles 10 micrometers
in size or larger. An absolute micron rating can be determined by single-pass or
multi-pass testing and is usually obtained by passing a test fluid containing
particles of a known size through a small, flat sheet of filter media. Any particles
that pass through the media are captured and measured. An absolute rating is
also expressed in the form of a percentage of the size of particles captured.

Until recently, there has not been one universally accepted test method to
measure or describe the media pore size or the size of particles a filter media
can capture and hold. Depending on which test method was used, the same filter
media could be rated with different micron ratings, thus leading to confusion
regarding how well the filter's media actually performs.

http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/89-5R3.pdf

 

Factory loaded shells are looking pretty good after all this discussion. :shock: