What state are you in?

 

TFin look into the German Wire Hairs as well. I wanted a dog with the same qualities you are asking for. I bought one 2 years ago, and am glad I did. She is very birdy, fun, smart, loves to swim with me, and just a joy to be around. Maybe a little hyper, but I don't care. Good luck

 

I'm in Michigan.

I looked at the GWH as well. I like the looks of the GSP better. What are the differences in qualities between the two?

A lab is a bit "bland" I guess. Great family pets for sure but are there still good hunting breeds out there? I know they can and will hunt, but is that still a strong suit for them? I think this would be the easiest dog to own. Seems a lab is the typical family pet.

 

Tfin, My neighbor has a short hair, and he wishes he had a wire hair. We live in western NC and have a lot of briars where we hunt grouse. His dog gets scrapped up more and always has some welps from the briars. The wire hair protects the dog more. My dog is a little better pointer, but I do work her more than he does his, so take that with a grain of salt. He does admit he like my dogs ability and durablilty more. Either one will make a great companion.

 

My first suggestion is to wait a bit once you move out to buy a dog. Starting out is rather expensive and there are often costs one does not expect. Various pieces of furniture, curtains or shades, home or renter's insurance, dishes, pots and pans, silverware, linens, rugs, cleaning supplies and equipment, food, and a host of other household items are needed when one moves and are rather major drains on the income. That is not to mention the obvious such as mortgage or rent (which can be higher if one has certain types of pets), trash, water, electric, and phone bills, car and associated costs, and of course other "social" costs. The care of a dog is rather expensive, between vet bills, food, initial purchase price (proven good hunting stock will be more expensive than many out of the paper), and cost of other assorted items such as travel kennels, toys, leashes, collars, and training costs such as equipment, travel costs to training grounds, membership to a training organization (a great way to access equipment, grounds, help and knowledge, and eventually birds that you can't afford yet), cleaning costs while house breaking the pup, and the replacement of things damaged by pup's chewing. Waiting a bit to get settled in one's home and determine how much disposable income will be at their disposal will give all concerned a better standard of living. As hard as it is to not have a dog, it is even harder to give up the dog or get into financial difficulty trying to support it.
Of the three you mention, I would suggest a lab as it would be a better choice as an all season duck dog than the other two. I also think it is a bit easier to train a flushing dog as a newcomer than a pointer. It may also be easier to find a decent lab from hunting lines as they are so common plus get one at a bit better price (I know purchase price is a minor concern in the long run but for someone just starting out in life, a few bucks can be a deal breaker). The next choice would be the shorthair as I feel they are the lab equivalent of the pointing dog world with many of them being able to take a heavy training hand which can be common with a new, inexperienced trainer, without too much problem. I like Britts but I feel one needs to be fairly knowledgeable on pedigrees as there are so many bred more towards the bench than the field and many dual champs that I have seen seem to have field titles through good fortune
rather than ability.

 

My first suggestion is to wait a bit once you move out to buy a dog. Starting out is rather expensive and there are often costs one does not expect. Various pieces of furniture, curtains or shades, home or renter's insurance, dishes, pots and pans, silverware, linens, rugs, cleaning supplies and equipment, food, and a host of other household items are needed when one moves and are rather major drains on the income. That is not to mention the obvious such as mortgage or rent (which can be higher if one has certain types of pets), trash, water, electric, and phone bills, car and associated costs, and of course other "social" costs. The care of a dog is rather expensive, between vet bills, food, initial purchase price (proven good hunting stock will be more expensive than many out of the paper), and cost of other assorted items such as travel kennels, toys, leashes, collars, and training costs such as equipment, travel costs to training grounds, membership to a training organization (a great way to access equipment, grounds, help and knowledge, and eventually birds that you can't afford yet), cleaning costs while house breaking the pup, and the replacement of things damaged by pup's chewing. Waiting a bit to get settled in one's home and determine how much disposable income will be at their disposal will give all concerned a better standard of living. As hard as it is to not have a dog, it is even harder to give up the dog or get into financial difficulty trying to support it.
Of the three you mention, I would suggest a lab as it would be a better choice as an all season duck dog than the other two. I also think it is a bit easier to train a flushing dog as a newcomer than a pointer. It may also be easier to find a decent lab from hunting lines as they are so common plus get one at a bit better price (I know purchase price is a minor concern in the long run but for someone just starting out in life, a few bucks can be a deal breaker). The next choice would be the shorthair as I feel they are the lab equivalent of the pointing dog world with many of them being able to take a heavy training hand which can be common with a new, inexperienced trainer, without too much problem. I like Britts but I feel one needs to be fairly knowledgeable on pedigrees as there are so many bred more towards the bench than the field and many dual champs that I have seen seem to have field titles through good fortune
rather than ability.

Hey I appreciate the advice. I'm a financial advisor by day and believe me, I know all about the financial aspect of it. I'm fully prepared for this.

I'm leaning a bit more toward a lab now. This dog would probably be 75% house pet and 25% hunter. I think a lab would fit that role better than some of the other breeds I mentioned.

I like the size of the GSP and Brittany though. Most labs I see get quite big. Not too big of a deal I guess.

Any other info/advice is always welcome. Thanks!

 

What part of michigan do you live.

 

I'm in SE Mich.

 

I'm not gonna enter a spitting contest about this (because I love any and all bird dogs and see a place for each and every one of them). So, no need to cut & paste what I say because I'll say no more than:

I'm not a "Lab Man". I've got Springers. Have trained Chessies, Labs, GSP, Golden, and English & Irish Setters. Have competed in field trials in the 70s & 80s. When someone hunts with me, they often say: "Boy, I think I'd like to get a dog like yours". This is after seeing my girls work ducks/geese from a river blind one day and pheasants or quail the next. My breed recommendation to first time bird dog owners who are going to do it on their own: "Get a Lab".

And before you get a pup, read one book, by one of the Lab Guys, and do whatever it says.

 

Get a lab. Join a local retriever club. Buy Evan Graham's Smartworks books and "10 Minute Retriever" by Dahl.

Keep in mind,a young pup won't be able to stay in a crate all day long without accidents. So, someone needs to let them out to go during the day.

 

If you plan to hunt Waterfowl the majority get a lab.

If it is upland a majority get a wirehair.

 

I agree with chaco - if you get a lab look into a smaller (pocket lab). They are usually around 35 to 45 pounds so the size is not an issue.

 

If you do choose to go with a Lab, be aware that there are huge differences between Field Bred Labs and Bench (show) Bred Labs. Spend the money up front by going with a good breeder. Look for pedigrees with FC (Field Champion) before the dogs name, or AFC (Amateur FC) or NFC (National FC). Or MH (Master Hunter) after the dogs name. The more titles in the pedigree the better. Avoid CH (Show Champion) before the name if you want a hunting Lab.

There are also many clearances that you should look for…hips, elbows, eyes and more.

Labs are number one for a reason. Their personality is wonderful. Mine is asleep on the floor now, but she's a hunting machine in the field.

Lee

 

If your new to the hunting world and are not sure where to look for a lab I can point you in the right direction. The certs are a must if you do know the breeder personally.

 

Not to beat a dead horse but when I was your age, my time consisted of morning class, then work, possible evening classes then what free time was spent going out with friends. There are emotional costs included with owning a dog. You need to spend time training and socializing. You can't just put them in a kennel or send them to the sitter everytime you feel like going out. The dog will want your free time everyday.

I had a young roommate your age last May. He brought with him his dog. Friendly dog but became funny for lack of attention. He would leave for the weekend and leave the dog alone in his room or the backyard. The first month he was fine in caring for the dog but later became too much of a hassle for him. I ended up surrendering the dog to the shelter because it was destroying the house and getting loose by chewing thru the fence. It was also starting to bark at the neighborhood children. After two visits by animal control, two holes in the deck, destroyed hottub cover, and a large bag of dog food in three days (he starved the dog), I finally had enough, surrendered the dog and kicked him out.

To raise a dog takes alot of commitment and time especially hunting breeds. Hunting breeds in general need, time for socialization, time for training, and time for running. Make sure you can commit aleast 3 hours daily at a minimum.

 

Certainly not an expert here - but this may help you - it certainly helped me.

I was in the same boat as you for the past couple months - did a lot of research on the net/library etc. I contacted a number of bird dog "rescue" organizations and met a good number of dogs from puppies to oldsters. Last thursday we adopted Ruby - a three year old German Shorthair Pointer - bottom line - Ruby had a tough life previously and was an owner surrender to the German Shorthair Rescue of Wisconsin.

We COULD NOT BE HAPPIER!!!! Not that it mattered to me but she's an AKC purebread - a natural hunter - completly housetrained - a cuddler. I am SO psyched about Ruby - i can't wait til the weather breaks and we can work on some real birds - it's funny but on the way home from Wisconsin - I was walking her for a potty break - she went on POINT! I kicked the bush and out popped a cottontail!!!!!!! Now I know it wasn't a pheasant, but we've owned her for about 6 days now - and when she points - there is definitely something there - we scored a couple rabbits and three or four doves so far on our walks. Do a search for bird dog rescues - it's a rather weird process to have to be 'interviewed' before you are allowed to adopt a dog - but the price can't be beat (I paid 275 for a trained dog). You mentioned fishing - I have a small jon boat in my garage that she's VERY interested in getting into.If I can help in any way email me at ronald.biel@uscellular.com
Best of luck to you.

 

I appreciate the feedback everyone. I know dogs are expensive and time consuming and I'm ready for that. I do appreciate that you are warning me though. I don't want to see a dog neglected any more than you do.

Pocket labs interest me. Is that a variation of the breed or just a name given to the smaller ones?

I've been going back and forth all day on a GSP or Lab. Right at the time I think I've nailed one down I read something else to change my mind.

I don't plan to buy from anyone but a reputable breeder. Info on finding those would be helpful. I think I can get a good dog from a good breeder for about $1500, is that reasonable?

Purebred labs seem to run anywhere from $500-1000 depending on the breeder, and another $500 or so for good training.

Any other info is appreciated.

 

TFin04 - It is more of a name that the guys that hunt the smaller labs call them. If your interested in one I can get you the name and number of an excellent linage of smaller labs. I have been trying to talk my buddy into breeding Camie (his pocket lab). I call her the rocket retriever

That is her heading out for a goose. I have seen her hunt in all kinds of conditions and have yet to see a disadvantage to having a smaller lab. She is one hell of an upland dog also. Now all that aside, her mother and father are in Nebraska and I think their owner is having another set of pups. I will check into it and get back to you if you want.

Your cost is closer to a started to finished lab in my neck of the woods.

This shows her size better.

 

Very interested in pocket labs. Any info you can get me would be great.

 

Oh, I forgot to add that I had a discussion w/ mom the other day. Got a green light to get the dog while I'm still here.

I'm going to save up about $2500 in a specific account just as my dog fund, do my research in the meantime and then make my purchase. I'm hoping to have a pup by March.

I'm thinking that $2500 will give me flexibility in buying a good dog and having enough left over to cover vet visits, food and supplies for at least 12 months.

 

The best money spent is in gas. Attend a trial/hunt test or two, meet old hands dog people. They have a wealth of information. Ask around for good trainers/trialers and if you are able to, attend one of their trainning sessions or ask to see them train. Watch how they handle and work their dogs. During this time, you should have an idea of what breed you want and a good idea of the program you are going to follow.

 

Thanks Mite. I found two well known lab and GSP breeders about an hour drive from me, both only 15 minutes from each other. I plan to take a day trip up there and visit both of them.

 

Labs are great. Hunted over and with dozens of them. Some worthless, some good at one thing and worthless on another, some just truely extraordinary, but all were pretty good dogs. Most of my hunting is waterfowl hunting.

No doubt by the picture, while I like labs... I love my Goldens. Most folks are suprised when they see a swamp collie that acctually hunts and retrieves ducks and doesn't just do parlor tricks for tidbits. They still exist, and I wouldn't have anything else. Mine will retrieve with any of your better (but not SUPER GREAT) labs. The super great ones are mostly products of intense training and perfect blood lines.

My advice to you is this (dog breed aside here).... if you want your dog to hunt, you need to pay attention to its pedigree and its parents. Dutch (my golden), his parents were both hunting dogs first and family dogs second, and they were primarily pheasant dogs. His father had his master hunter title or whatever the offical lingo is, and his mother had her Jr. Hunt title. Both of those dogs were EXTREMELY birdy, and exhibited great tendancies towards hunting. That put a lot of confidence in me, who wanted a dog that was going to be a hardcore duck dog, but not just another cookie cutter lab. I grew up with english setters and goldens... I guess I'm just a bit biased and used to them.

When you pick out a puppy, spend some time with the bunch of them. Dutch is an awesome dog, and I wouldn't trade him for anything in the world, but I will say that my next one (several years down the road) will probably be a female. It seems (generally) that females are MUCH easier to train and in some cases are more personal and thorough at the same time. Goldens are pretty easy to train, but can be fairly sensitive. All I have to do is put the e-collar on Dutch.. don't even have to turn it on... he knows whats up. As to hunting ability, Dutch turned two years old on New Years Eve of 07, and has picked up well over 200 birds in live hunting situations. He has only ever lost a small handfull of birds, five or six I think.

The reason that I picked Dutch out of the other 7 males I had to choose from (I got the pick of the litter as the breeder owed me a favor) I sat and just watched them all run around the yard with a pheasant wing and a puppy bumper. Dutch was one of the few dogs who, no matter what else was going on, would come back and check me out every 5 or ten minutes, and when I was near him, he never took his eyes off me. He was truely interested in me. I guess we bonded... but it was evident that as he was so keen on me, and at the same time such a fierce retriever and driven, that I could teach that dog to moonwalk if he could stand upright. He is high strung enough to break ice after a crippled mallard, but can remain calm enough to be a regular attraction in the therapy ward at the Childern's Hospital. He goes on runs with the girlfriend, loves the water, really doesn't wander off much, and will pick up anything with feathers that isn't a crow (I've never figured that out either).

I was a beleiver that if you spend enough time and proper training with a dog, you can make a good hunter out of him no matter what his bloodlines are. However, experience has proven to me that this is just not so. You can teach a British Bulldog to retrieve if you whip his *** and stuff enough biscuits down his jowls when he does good... but you cannot foster that internal fire for birds and retrieving like a good well bred dog has. You may get a pearl in your oysters every now and again from a mutt litter, but the odds are stacked againest it.

You'll find that a good hunting dog will make a great house companion as well. But a good house dog can make a real *** of himself and you in the duck blind.

 

Thanks for so much input everyone. I really do appreciate you taking the time to type out so much information. Then again, who doesn't like talking about their dogs?

I think I'm pretty set on a lab. Been reading dog stuff nonstop for the last few days. I need to find a good breeder who can get me a smaller one from hunting bloodlines. If anyone has references within a few state radius of Michigan, please let me know. I'll have everything in order by April or May. I want to purchase in the spring time so I can really work with the dog on a daily basis. My girlfriend's family has 5 acres of land (all mowed grass) that includes a pond. I think it will make a perfect training area. They have a dog too so we can get to socializing regularly. I cant wait!!

Thanks!

 

Here are some folks in your area. This club is a great resource brfore and after your purchase.

http://www.seminavhda.com/

....and btw. When you go out to meet these people, remember three things.

1. Arrive early
2. Bring a lunch
3. Commit the entire day

Everybody loves to talk about dogs. Ask your questions and inquire about breedings. Odds are you'll find more than one breeder out there. However, being Michigan they might all be gsp. LOL