Shotgun Forum banner

Browning St. Louis MO., Belgium unmarked Sweet 16 1947 ?

5K views 5 replies 4 participants last post by  Goad  
#1 ·
Hi,
I need some help learning any info, history and potential value about a vintage Browning Shotgun. I estimate overall condition at very good with finish estimated around 90% however I'll appreciate you guy's feedback to get a more accurate idea of finish, condition.

information:
Gun has the lightened features of a Sweet 16 model however there is no "Sweet 16" identification.
1. Barrel ring has 3 drilled holes
2. Inside of receiver sides are milled half moon cutouts
3. Trigger and safety has golden/bronze appearance

Receiver:
Trigger has dark golden/bronze appearance
Safety is located in front of trigger
Serial# X11690

Left side: Browning Arms Company St. Louis Mo.
Browning
Trade Mark

Barrel 16GA 28" overall, 25.5" end to chamber), 2 3/4" *** (*** = Cylinder Bore right?)
Plain Barrel, bead front sight, matched ss#: X11690
Barrel ring has 3 drilled holes
Magazine plug: Black plastic with imprinted "Made in Japan"
The magazine capacity with the plug in holds only 2 rounds (3 shot gun?)

Barrel Markings:
Left side barrel: *** SPECIAL STEEL -16 GAUGE SHELLS 2 3/4
O (or maybe reversed "D", Kg 757, sideways "3" and A-/F, lion symbol w/ P.V, Crown symbol over ellipse w/ ELG and star inside, ellipse w/ "16-70"
Right side barrel: Made in Belgium

Stock and forend:
Overall condition very good, no cracks or major dings. Butt stock has some darkening near receiver on right side from handing and oils. Butt plate is original.

Full detailed photo documentation available.
BTW - How do I upload my images to this post? No upload feature?

I test fired this gun at the range, 2-3 shots using Winchester Super X Mark 5 16 GA shells. It cycled fine but kicked like a 12 GA! I checked the seal configuration and it appeared correct for standard high brass. I'm thinking maybe a spring kit is in order? If so, exactly which seals and springs should be replaced?
Should I buy a complete spring kit?
Or should this gun be left alone completely original as a collectable?

Thanks in advance for any help. Sorry for the long post.
JW

How do I attach photos here?
I uploaded to members photo section - links below:

cpg1410/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=0

cpg1410/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=1
 
#2 ·
The "X" marked Auto 5 Sixteen Gauges were the first ones sent to the United States after WW2. The "X" was the sign that these guns were chambered in 2 3/4 inch up from the 2 9/16 inch befor the war. The Sweet was not put on the light guns till a couple of years later. All the Sweets had gold plating on the trigger and safety. I also owned one of those 1947 guns. Some of the BEST engraving work FN did.

The recoil spring will compress over the years. A new spring and bronze friction piece will help a gun that old. You have a Great Gun. Enjoy!

Below is the one I had. Mine was X11172

Image


Image


Image
 
#3 ·
Thanks Rob for your response. I have a feeling this has some real history and can see the quality of craftsmanship. So tell me, are these guns considered "Sweets" or not - if it doesn't have the "Sweet 16" engraved on it?

What would be an estimated range in condition and value based on the photos I provided?

That's a nice photo with the doves. What choke did yours have?
And the photos of the gun disassembled - very nice.

I would like to do a thorough cleaning and restore the stock finish. Is there dis-assembly / assembly instructions available?
What is the technique to pull the dark staining and oils out of the stock? And for finish - would you use mineral oil or tongue oil? Can anyone provide any direction or recommendations on the proper process and materials for stock work specific to these guns and that era?

There is a very good gunsmith here that does full restorations - but I'm thinking it might be best to leave the metal finish alone aside from clean and re-lube - do you agree?

I will order a new recoil spring and friction piece. Is that all it should need given there are no other signs of wear or problems?

Thanks much
 
#4 ·
By your description and the photos, the gun is a Sweet Sixteen.

Rob, Your pictures are great! The pic of the disassembled A5 gives me the shivers but I am sure that you can put it back as new. I just don't trust my skills as a smith to do that to one of my guns. I once tried my hand at a Purdey S/S. That cost me $300 to make right in 1960's money! A good lesson. :roll:

Greatwhite, If you think that the gun needs to be disassembled and cleaned, I would suggest that you have a good smith do the job. His set of proper screwdrivers would cost you the price orf a screw set alone. I had Grandfather's 1927 A5 cleaned after 50+ years and that is about as often as most of these guns need the operation unless the gun goes for a swim.
 
#5 ·
A5guy, Thanks for the warning on proper tools and skills. I do have the proper tools and have done gun work before - however I am not a gunsmith so I will consider looking into professional help to be sure. Based on new info, I only want to clean and lube this - not restoration work. Here's an update. I contacted Browning on this question of identification. At first request, the initial serial number look-up identified it as a Standard A5 16GA. Speaking with the Browning historian, he looked it up and said the same thing. I persisted in listing the lightweight features so he dug into archives and found that it is indeed a Sweet 16 w/ cylinder bore barrel - the oldest he has looked up, it was delivered July 18, 1947 and sold for $93.33. He could not answer why it was not marked properly as a Sweet 16 but that it is a very unusual case. I applied for an official letter stating their records.

Thanks guys for you very helpful assistance.
 
#6 ·
I have the same gun. I was told it is a "Special Sweet Sixteen" and my $40.00 letter from Browning will identify it as such. Mine was special ordered with a 28" full choke and solid rib. Some 1947 Sweets were engraved some special orders were not. I just got off the phone with the daughter in law of the original owner. Her brother was the second owner and I am the third. The original owner owned a hardware store in a very small town in 1947. He bought it for pheasant hunting.