I own a M21 20 ga O/U. They are pretty to look at but nothing special to shoot. They are not a high volume gun. I shoot about 7,500 rounds a year at skeet and of that number my CSMC shotgun accounts for maybe 150 rounds. Everything else is shot with my Brownings. My 725 20 ga Sporting is a much better shotgun and a much, much, better value. I do like to take it out and look at it once in a while. Mine hasn't given me any problems, it's just like a blonde super-model, nice to look at but not much of substance there.

 

.

They are understandably made from $$$$

YMMV, but I'd rather pay the same money or less for a nice gennie.

.

 

I own a M21 20 ga O/U. They are pretty to look at but nothing special to shoot. They are not a high volume gun. I shoot about 7,500 rounds a year at skeet and of that number my CSMC shotgun accounts for maybe 150 rounds. Everything else is shot with my Brownings. My 725 20 ga Sporting is a much better shotgun and a much, much, better value. I do like to take it out and look at it once in a while. Mine hasn't given me any problems, it's just like a blonde super-model, nice to look at but not much of substance there.

Could you say more? Are you saying that they won't withstand high volume shooting? Fair enough, but based on what? Does any pricey gun actually shoot better than a more basic one? That has not been my experience as long as both guns fit. My pricey guns were bought in consideration of the aesthetics, craftsmanship, and reputed long term durability, not because they shot better.

 

I had an A10 American Deluxe for a few years that I used for sporting and FITASC. It was a very nice gun and CSMC was very responsive on the couple of warranty issues I had. It was a tad light for a target gun and it wore me out on those 200 target days. Went back to a Perazzi.

 

The Model 21 will hold up to all you can give it.
Pricey guns and thus not that many owners.
I have been pleased with the ones I own!! {hs#

 

Can someone propose why the subject guns don't seem to get any love here?

Their business practices are offensive. There is a long history of taking the money and then discontinuing the guns. For example, the A10 that was introduced at the pre-production price of about $5000.

The price quickly became $10K or more and now is rarely at 10K, ranging up to $40K. Most are at $16K plus. https://connecticutshotgun.co/a10-rose- ... 8-barrels/ .

 

Can someone propose why the subject guns don't seem to get any love here?

Their business practices are offensive. There is a long history of taking the money and then discontinuing the guns. For example, the A10 that was introduced at the pre-production price of about $5000.

The price quickly became $10K or more and now is rarely at 10K, ranging up to $40K. Most are at $16K plus. https://connecticutshotgun.co/a10-rose- ... 8-barrels/ .

What exactly is this an example of?

CSMC introduced a gun, offered preorders at a steeply discounted price to raise $ presumably to facilitate production, then increased the price for subsequent orders after the gun was in full production. Same thing that was done with the RBL. It's basically Kickstarter for guns...

The problem I see with CSMC is abysmal marketing. The A10 wasn't marketed to skeet, trap, or sporting shooters at all, which are the primary market for $5-10K over-unders.

From what I've seen, unless you are familiar with them already, and know about their website, it's very unlikely you'll ever "stumble" onto them.

As a company they likely held onto the double gun market a bit too long, and have now been forced to transition to:

-Weird double barrel pump shotgun
-AR/AK 12ga shotguns
-Weird double firing 22 WMR revolver
-Rebranded Stag ARs
-1911s
-$2k+ single action revolvers

It's like they decided to get into every facet of every niche market they could think of, and compete against established manufacturers whose guns sell for less and are of known quality. I see them as a bit of a rudderless ship at this point.

 

'Can someone propose why the subject guns don't seem to get any love here? Pricey for most people? Sure. But I would expect to see some mention of them.'

CSMC is a small production, high quality, high priced company that produces custom and semi custom guns. Those guns are not within the price range of a lot of people. Certainly not me, but I've been fortunate enough to have shot and handled a number of them because of friends at my club who own a number of them. They are all field guns and they're impressive. Will I shoot a 200 bird SC event with the SBS? Doubtful. They are light, svelte, well balanced, and actually made in this country, but I'll shoot my 686 Sporter in a long event. However, for walking across South Dakota in the fall I'd consider one.

I get an impression that CSMC doesn't see their company in direct competition with any other maker, except perhaps the English or Europeans. They certainly don't put a dent in Ber/Brn market.

Interestingly, of the people I know who have these guns only one has been returned for any service. That gun was sent in to lighten the trigger pull. Having shot an A10 I do wish I had put the money down on one when they first came out a decade ago. Prices are now out of reach for me, but Porsches were cheaper then as well. Can't afford one of those either, but i'd like to.

 

Can someone propose why the subject guns don't seem to get any love here?

Their business practices are offensive. There is a long history of taking the money and then discontinuing the guns. For example, the A10 that was introduced at the pre-production price of about $5000.

The price quickly became $10K or more and now is rarely at 10K, ranging up to $40K. Most are at $16K plus. https://connecticutshotgun.co/a10-rose- ... 8-barrels/ .

What exactly is this an example of?

Here are some comments about the A10 (SSM)

I received my A-10 standard 2 barrel set two weeks ago after a 17 month wait. The gun is the most unbelieveable POS that I have ever seen. The finish is uneven, neither barrel is properly fitted to the frame , the forend is not fitted properly to either barrel and cannot be installed when the gun is in battery. When the forend is in place on either barrel there is a huge gap between the forend tip and the barrel and the effort needed to open the gun is ridiculous. Sounds bad........wait, here isthe "best part", both barrels (12 & 20) have a series of ripples and rings that run from the chambers to the muzzles. It looks like they were honed with a rock tied to string. I am personally bringing this piece of garbage back to CSMC to see what they will do. I will post a follow-up.
BTW, I own a number of high grade guns, both foreign and domestic and I have never experienced anything like this before.

you'll see RBL problems on this page
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 3&t=124302

I am the poster: I appreciate everyone taking the time to read my posting. Just for clarification purposes, I had been having problems with the "selector" not functioning from day one. The first time I thought it was because the stock was loose from the receiver, the second time (after the fall in the dirt)I thought it was because the fore end and lever were loose. The third time that the gun did not fire on the second shot was (to the best of my knowledge) because the selector had moved to a neutral position. This was after the gun had been brought back to it original condition and double checked by Adam. That was the finial straw.
The other s/s guns that I own are: 12 g field grade Beretta silver hawk, 20g Parker Repro., 12g fox sterlingworth. I wanted a s/s more suited for Sporting Clays, that is the reason I went with the 12RBL. I was VERY SORRY I had such a bad experience.

 

Can someone propose why the subject guns don't seem to get any love here?

All you have to do is a search. Tony Galazan is the Ron Popeil of the shotgun world . . . except that Ron Popeil has a far better reputation.

 

Wow, quite an axe you're grinding there. Many more, considerably more knowledgeable would disagree.

To the OP, they are not now, never have been a main competitor to most mainstream companies, they've always been a niche type of house. Their Fox reprise, early 21's, and some of their own designs were great bargains initially, price went up once demand was established. They've offered such a wide range of guns, it's very hard to discuss them as if they offered one or two models of basically the same thing.

 

Here are some comments about the A10 (SSM)

I received my A-10 standard 2 barrel set two weeks ago after a 17 month wait. The gun is the most unbelieveable POS that I have ever seen. The finish is uneven, neither barrel is properly fitted to the frame , the forend is not fitted properly to either barrel and cannot be installed when the gun is in battery. When the forend is in place on either barrel there is a huge gap between the forend tip and the barrel and the effort needed to open the gun is ridiculous. Sounds bad........wait, here isthe "best part", both barrels (12 & 20) have a series of ripples and rings that run from the chambers to the muzzles. It looks like they were honed with a rock tied to string. I am personally bringing this piece of garbage back to CSMC to see what they will do. I will post a follow-up.
BTW, I own a number of high grade guns, both foreign and domestic and I have never experienced anything like this before.

you'll see RBL problems on this page
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 3&t=124302

I am the poster: I appreciate everyone taking the time to read my posting. Just for clarification purposes, I had been having problems with the "selector" not functioning from day one. The first time I thought it was because the stock was loose from the receiver, the second time (after the fall in the dirt)I thought it was because the fore end and lever were loose. The third time that the gun did not fire on the second shot was (to the best of my knowledge) because the selector had moved to a neutral position. This was after the gun had been brought back to it original condition and double checked by Adam. That was the finial straw.
The other s/s guns that I own are: 12 g field grade Beretta silver hawk, 20g Parker Repro., 12g fox sterlingworth. I wanted a s/s more suited for Sporting Clays, that is the reason I went with the 12RBL. I was VERY SORRY I had such a bad experience.

But that all has to do with the quality of the product, not the business model of taking preorders to raise funds, which is what you implied.

 

Hmmm...

My first recommendation is that you try to shoot the CSMC you like, along with a few of their other models. CSMC is fine company that stands by its product. In this price range, you may also want to consider Krieghoff, Kolar, Beretta and numerous other well established brands. You will always find critics ranting from the ramparts. No company makes a perfect product. The difference lies in what they do when things go wrong and their willingness to continue working with you until it is resolved.

Having spoken with a number of CSMC shotgun owners, they all love their shotguns and shoot them with pride. Have also had them suggested to me, by a number of fine gun retailers in the USA. Most CSMC, Perrazi, Kolar and Krieghoff owners I know, do not feel the need to brag all day, about their wonderful shotguns. Quality is often understated. Just because I wear Versace, does not mean I need to scream it from the mountain tops.

Interesting to see a huge supporter of cheap Turkish semi autos, slam an iconic american brand. Are these wonderful CSMC shotguns more than the low-end semi-autos imported for the mass market? Absolutely.

Have to agree with Rooster, this does sound like a personal vendetta. There is nothing wrong with the practice of funding your initial manufacturing runs or new product launch, at a discounted price. That is common business practice. It is also common practice to raise prices when demand outstrips supply. Fine CSMC shotguns were never intended to compete on price, with cheap, imported semi-autos for the mass market. These are beautiful American made shotguns.

 

I know several folks who have bought various guns from Tony - the RBL in various iterations, the A-10, Win21 and his alter ego DP-12
Every one of them had issues within a short period of the owner taking possession, one of which is a gun writer friend of mine. One would think that if you were sending a new model to someone with some cred in that regard, you'd make damn sure it was perfect - at least I would have.

Now, to Tony's credit, he did make things right without cost; but those things should not have happened in the first place for the guns at the price points he charges.

 

As a company they likely held onto the double gun market a bit too long, and have now been forced to transition to:

-Weird double barrel pump shotgun
-AR/AK 12ga shotguns
-Weird double firing 22 WMR revolver
-Rebranded Stag ARs
-1911s
-$2k+ single action revolvers

It's like they decided to get into every facet of every niche market they could think of, and compete against established manufacturers whose guns sell for less and are of known quality. I see them as a bit of a rudderless ship at this point.

Suit yourself. They are not a reputable company, as far as I'm concerned. Nobody forces anyone into anything, there are always choices.

 

I've got nothing against them, but if I'm going to buy a 21, then I want a real Winchester even though modern manufacturing is probably better. But Winchester's was good enough for me. If I'm going to spend that kind of money on a fine O/U,then I'm going to buy a gun with a pedigree. Preferably a brand used by champions in their sports. Just my opinion

 

I've got nothing against them, but if I'm going to buy a 21, then I want a real Winchester even though modern manufacturing is probably better. But Winchester's was good enough for me. If I'm going to spend that kind of money on a fine O/U,then I'm going to buy a gun with a pedigree. Preferably a brand used by champions in their sports. Just my opinion

Agree.

 

Couldn't be happier with the guns, the process and the company.
Lou and Tony rock!

New Britain Fox DE
28 gauge 2 barrel set

New Britain Fox CE
16 gauge 2 barrel set

 

I haven't had any problems with the ones I have purchased. Nothing high end, but I've been pleased.
(2) RBL & (2) Revelation.
I think we need more niche,boutique shop style,double gun makers in this country.
Can you name many others currently making them?
Kolar ?
Who else ?
I commend them for being adventurous enough to even give it a go. That deserves some credit where I am from. Chances are
CSMC is not a profitable company. So I'm guessing there is some love and passion for the art. I haven't anything bad to say about them.

 

What's not to love? I own the $2000 Revelation, Feathered Crotch Walnut English stock, 28" barrerls and round body action with beautiful case hardening. Weighs 6lbs 2 oz with a trigger that breaks at 4 lbs on both barrels. It's a field gun not a clays guns so I don't think I'll be putting a 1000 rounds a month down it. If I could even find a B gun with the options mine has I'm sure it would be more than 2 grand and probably wouldn't be as well built as far at fit finish and wood grade. If it goes 1,000 rounds without breaking down it will have been more reliable than a couple of the new B guns I've owned. I'm already half way there.

 

Wow, great pictures mate, thank you for sharing. Agree that we need more high end shotgun manufacturers here AND drive support for their product. Kolar has done that so well. There are many great international brands in this space, would love to see the US be a much stronger player.

 

I know several folks who have bought various guns from Tony - the RBL in various iterations, the A-10, Win21 and his alter ego DP-12
Every one of them had issues within a short period of the owner taking possession, one of which is a gun writer friend of mine.

I know exactly who you mean and he has a lot of company. Years of back and forth, and still no satisfaction in many cases.

casey h
★★★★★
★★★★★

06/29/2020

Ordered a DP12. Malfunctioned out of the box. Ordered choke tubes. Dented upon arrival. Ordered a sling. Pieces don't clasp together. All of this is no big deal if they were actual nice about re sending new items and willing to reimburse you for the hundreds it costs to ship their mistakes back to them. But they aren't. They will blame you. They will say "we've never had this issue before". They will emplore all of their faculty to make you feel like you've done something wrong.. The only thing i did wrong was think that a company selling $3,000 shotguns would treat their customers like humans.

George A.
★★★★★
★★★★★

06/17/2018

The most positive attribute to my purchase of a Revelation was the introductory price. Delivery was estimated at a month at time of purchase, I was also told I would be notified at time of shipment. It showed up without any notification 10 weeks later. There are some metal work defects on the face of the barrel chambers where the rib connects. It must have been done by one of the CSMC spring interns and not inspected on the way out. The staff is very unhelpful. Do not expect anyone who knows anything to answer the phone. I will go back to ******* after this experience.

This isn't unusual by any means. They are the only comments on the Better Business Bureau® page . . . there are no positive comments. Feel free to believe that their very poor history is just coincidence or part of the vast right wing conspiracy. :roll:

 

Do People use BBB for positive comments ?
I've never heard anyone say " I'm going to call the Better Business Bureau and tell them how great this company is.
Here are some other companies that have
No positive comments
Fabarm
Caesar Guerini
Browning
Winchester
I think these are four great companies and
CSMC may very well have some issues.
However, the number of BBB positive comments isn't exactly the best indicator as far as I can tell.

 

Some of my issues with my M21 O/U: CSMC originally marketed it as if it was designed by Winchester yet never produced. They supposedly purchased the design and produced the gun that Winchester never got around to producing. What it actually is, is an Italian Rizzini clone, made in the US, with styling inspired by the M21 SxS. The metal in the receiver seems soft. The pin in the receiver face that releases the locking lug has dimpled part of the monoblock where it contacts. The barrels are a pain to put into the shallow receiver. Any slight contact of the ejectors with the top of the receiver (which is easy to do) will mar it. One needs to keep downward pressure on the barrels to open the action enough to allow enough access to load the bottom chamber. The receiver walls are much thinner than on my Browning 725.

CSMC does make a pretty gun no doubt. Mine has exhibition grade stock and it is perfectly finished. I think much of the expense is in their wood and wood finishing. The action is nothing special and is better executed on much cheaper Italian shotguns. The action on my 725 20 ga. with 15,000+ rounds thru it is still much tighter than my M21 was on day 1. I have maybe 500 rounds max thru my M21 O/U. When I move the top lever over on the M21, if I allowed them to, the barrels would just flop down without any resistance. I have a $1K Franchi Alcione that has had more rounds thru it and which has been hunted hard and even it has a better feeling action than my M21 CSMC O/U. I keep the M21 because it is pretty to look at and as a reminder to not judge a shotgun by their looks.

ps. It took me awhile to admit to myself that my CSMC M21 O/U was money misspent. After owning it for 5 years and having put only about 500 rounds thru it at skeet and never reaching for it when I go afield, I have to be honest with myself that I really don't like it all that much.