You can build in quality, you can inspect in quality or you can just ship the $hit and have your customers file for warranty repairs. Guess we know where we stand with CZ. (Huglu is out of picture in this regard because CZ accepts what they get from Huglu!) CZ must just figure X percentage on top of the cost is needed to cover P.O.'ed customers warranty issues.

Reminds me of what I was once told in a sales meeting by a company's production department head, "Price, Quality or Features", pick any two.

 

We are all fully aware of that, that is why when asked about CZ guns, I inquire if it is to be your only gun, or first gun you should be aware that it may need to be sent back right away. If this is something you could live with, by all means buy one, if not you would be better served with something else. I use the term you, not directed at anyone, just as if I were talking to someone asking about the CZ guns.

cdb

 

Yea it really sucks! Agent told me it would cost to much to inspect because they only have 2 gunsmiths working and 2 people answering phones. I bet the 2 answering phones are strictly dealing with complaints and problrmatic issues.
Its really to bad! Im going to have to rethink buying huglu from this point on.

 

Well for me I was told that as of 07 any problems with shotguns had been
corrected and that cz usa inspected and fixed any repairs needed bfre being sent
To dealers, guess my info source was near an open glue container!.
Oh well its being fixed and now I have the facts.

 

I think it boils down to luck of the draw. I have 5 Huglu made guns, and I can find some little flaw on any one of them, but they are not significant when I consider the price I paid. It may be that the cheapest one, Jon's Upland 202b, has the best overall finish, but the worst trigger pulls, and the most plain wood. Bobwhite 28 ga. has great wood, really good finish overall, but there's still a couple little things you'd not find on a gun costing a lot more. So I think Lefty's right, CZ knows that some guns won't cut it, and they'll have to take care of the problems when they come up. I think they have been able to improve the overall quality, by virtue of the volume they buy, but they'll never get'em to be perfect. Then again, I've handled guns costing substantially more, that had no better fit and finish than the comparable CZs.

 

I really like everything about the plain jane ringneck, what bothers
me is all the miss information out there and the fact that cz usa doesnt
even look at them before sending out?. I have no issue with the fact
that I may have to return str8 outta the box (if I know this ahead of time)
But i didnt?. Then i was cought off guard by the agents well ya get what you
Pay for attitude, thats BS!. Should have said crud that sucks, were doing our best
to produce a quality product & keep our customers happy!
all in all I now that I know where I stand & what to expect I will buy again,
but the agents attitude really pissed me off.

 

Well for me I was told that as of 07 any problems with shotguns had been
corrected and that cz usa inspected and fixed any repairs needed bfre being sent
To dealers, guess my info source was near an open glue container!.
Oh well its being fixed and now I have the facts.

This is true, don't know who would tell you that, everyone here knows that the final customer is the QC person. But I would not be to upset, because every other gun company is basically the same, Browning, Beretta, Benelli, ect, ect. You would probably have to go wayyyyyyy up in price to get a gun that is inspected, and fixed before being shipped. The Dehaan guns are, probably K, P, CG, and the like are. But Mass produced guns, made to a price point, no way.

cdb

 

Is deehan associated with cz or huglu?

 

While I don't like that fact that Huglu seems to be content shipping guns with issues. DeHaan tried to solve the QC issue years ago. He got dropped by Huglu from selling their standard products. CZ took over and has been servicing the guns here in the USA and Huglu is selling a lot of guns via them. it does seem Huglu's management is isolated from the real world or has their third world blinders on. Still the guns once the problems are repaired seem to last a long long time.

I don't see the difference with CZ repairing these guns after the fact or GM fixing the issues with their cars. Both come with flaws. At least with a CZ you might get a nice looking gun with great wood with no up charge and that needs a trip to CZ for tweaking.

With GM you'll get a so-so car with keys that shut the car off and therefore air bags that don't go off. I can live with the first, don't think the other one is survivable.

Or you might look at the Dickinson shotguns for a higher quality gun. Oh wait, they have no warranty at all. Cabela's is just pushing them out the door about as fast as they arrive from Turkey. Most of the forum members that have purchased one knew that there's no warranty going into the deal and are very pleased with the guns. But sometimes in life, things go breasts up.

If you find these fact don't fit with your philosophy, then there are other products that might be better for you. It is a trade off, price or quality in most cases.

 

Is deehan associated with cz or huglu?

He imports custom guns that he orders from Huglu. He is not associated with CZ at all and he has no warranty connection with Huglu as far as I know. He handles his own Huglu imported guns warranty work.

 

I agree with what you have said, i guess its just that my philosophy
has a hard time digesting price vs quality.
buying into the price point would Equate to buying junk.
I dont think huglu is junk just cought off guard by all the miss information
out there, cz usa blindly sending guns with issues & the agent attitude of hey you only paid 1k.

 

I just bought a 20ga. Ringneck and Wingshooter, I really like my guns, like I stated earlier the only problem I have is the Huglu chokes don't fit my guns, at least not without a real struggle to get in, not acceptable to me! After complaining to CZ they sent me 2 more chokes that were a little better but still real tight, but other than buying a set of Carlson chokes that fit perfect , I'm pretty happy with mine so far, sorry to hear about CZ uSA's response to your problem Stagecoach, hope they make it right... I'm going to make a choke tube wind chime out of the factory Huglu chokes.. Get some good aftermarket chokes you'll be happy!

 

Yea now that ive settled down im still happy just hate getting cought flat footed :shock:
Im sure once problem solved I will get years
Of enjoyment from the gun. Wind chimes excellent idea!

 

Yea, I'm perplexed by the Turkish Shotgun thing , they go to the trouble of making a beautiful well fitting shotgun that shoots great , no problem there, but then manufacture choke tubes that don't fit right , at least in our guns! If it wasn't for that , I have nothing but great things to say about the guns. So they way I figure it, I have two beautiful great shooting shotguns for less than I would have paid for a Citori , and that's including the $300.00 I spent on 6 extended Carlson chokes!

 

Yea now that ive settled down im still happy just hate getting cought flat footed :shock:

Not sure when you got in touch with them, but I've found it's better for my blood pressure if I let them get their coffee and settle in for the week and avoid those Monday morning calls. I think Neal's doing a great job with what he's got to work with, but they seem a little swamped/stressed first thing in the week...

My two cents on the QC:
I really only had two things needing attention on my 2013 gun: 1 rough fitting choke and some finish issues on the forearm iron. Finding both would have meant near full disassembly and thorough cleaning of the gun. Multiply that by all the guns coming through and there would be a real bottleneck and price increase. And that would all be to catch something that probably would have gone completely unnoticed by most folks getting a gun for light hunting and occasional clays (I was shooting just as well as with my B-gun even before addressing those).

Not sure what my point is anymore, just sure glad I could squeak by and afford the CZ as it was...

 

Yea I agree it just doesnt add up?
On the same hand cz says it would cost
To much to inspect, hum? Wonder what
Its costing in shipping to repair & replace.
Im sure its more than a simple inspection
Before sending to dealers. however im with
You, good guns and if not for a ***** here & there
Nothing bad to say. I think anyone researching the shotguns will find this thread very helpful.

 

Would like to see you post a follow up after CZ-USA Warranty makes a fix and sends back your gun.

Follow up question, where did you obtain the information that CZ-USA hand inspected each Huglu production shotgun imported and marketed under their label. Even companies such as Browning/Winchester market firearms under their labels which are foreign manufactured, packaged and shipped to US distributors without anyone from Browning-Morgan-Utah inspecting the individual guns. However, when problematic production issues arise, generally, corrections are made to improve production. In the end, Browning/Winchester, or CZ-USA decides when to take corrective actions to improve production based upon sales, complaints, and cost of warranty repairs. As example, my '11 Bobwhite is superb having been hunted hard since new without issue. All packaged Huglu chokes thread and seat properly and the gun patterns my favorite loads well on the pattern board. Not sure if mine is the exception or the rule. Could be the choke complaints are the exception and not the rule.

Best

 

Prior to '07 the Huglu guns were somewhat notorious for breaking firing pins and some other reliability "issues". Those problems have been corrected. Those are the issues that are widely referred to as having been corrected in '07

The fact that CZ-USA simply brings the boxes in and ships them out has been mentioned here on the forum many times. It is not a new piece of information. In fact, amongst importers of many different types of goods this is standard practice. That 42" TV at Walmart for $399....do you think that the actual importer that slapped their same on it Samsung, Hisense etc actually inspected each TV? In a more perfect world CZ-USA would inspect every firearm and sell the guns at the same price as they do now. But it's not going to happen. To do so CZ-USA would have to charge more for the guns in order to pay the salary and benefits of additional employees. CZ-USA is a business and they are in this to make money. As such, they have a choice. They can do a final QC check on all the guns and decrease warranty repair or they can "bring 'em in and ship 'em out" and have a higher rate of warranty repair. Naturally, they choose the one that they feel is going to cost them the least money. In this case they feel that the amount of time spent on warranty repair is less than what it would cost them to do an additional layer of QC. It's a business decision pure and simple. It does sound hard to believe that it is less expensive to pay for shipping and repairs, but lots of people have tried making a business of importing "entry level" guns. And most of them are no longer in business. So I figure CZ-USA has at least a fair clue as to the relative costs of each option.

When Mark DeHaan was importing his "stock guns" he did inspect every firearm and often returned some that were not up to his standards. And he charged a good bit more for his guns than CZ-USA charged for similar models.

I realize that $700 to $1,000 is a pretty fair chunk of cash to part with but the sad truth is that in the world of double barreled shotguns that is "entry level" for new guns. There are plenty of intelligent people that will tell you that no new double under $2,000 (MSRP) is worth owning. And that's great for people that have that kind of money to put into a shotgun. Not so great for people that don't.

I'm sure you will agree that $15,000 is a lot of money. I'm equally sure you would agree that $15,000 would be very much "entry level" for a new car. So as you can see, "entry level" means different amounts depending on the product. In the world of double barreled shotguns, anything under $1,000 is in fact "entry level".

So what do you get from CZ-USA for that "entry level" money? You get a gun that will work reliably and that if it has a reliability problem in the first 5 years of ownership, CZ-USA makes it right-quickly. You also get a gun that will be free of major cosmetic defects, or CZ-USA will make it right.

For most people that is considered a good deal for "entry level" money in any product.

Others want an "entry level" product to be the same as a product that costs twice or more as much. Feeling that way is a recipe for disappointment.

The Huglu guns I have owned have all gone "bang" every time I have pulled the trigger. They look good and they carry pretty well in the field and they kill birds or break clays so long as I point them right. I know that if I buy enough of them I'll get one that has a problem in the first few boxes of shells--maybe even before I ever fire a shell. But I accept that as part of the deal in buying a double barreled shotgun that costs under $1,000. That is why I only buy inexpensive foreign imports from a company with a reputation for excellent customer service. Before I bought my first Huglu in December of '06, I did about 5 weeks of research on what inexpensive SxS to buy. I chose a DeHaan because after my research I knew that no matter what brand of inexpensive SxS I chose I might run into "issues" early on in ownership but at the time DeHaan had the best reputation for correcting problems quickly and painlessly. I could have spent about $150-$200 less than the $679 I paid and gotten a Stoeger, Remington Spartan (Baikal) or CZ-USA (Huglu) but none of them had a very good reputation for solving problems at the time. So I went with a DeHaan (Huglu). Glad I did. Since then, CZ-USA has developed an excellent reputation for quick and painless customer service when needed.

 

Bottom line is its my fault, 10x10 I ALWAYS RESRARCH BEFORE BUYING
but this time was different. I stumbled across the ringneck while shopping for a shotgun, I fell in love with it on the spot and was not leaving without it, period!
once home I immediately began to research cz/huglu, everything I could find on the net to read. 1st of all just about everything I could find was less than flattering?
Firing pin issues, barrel regulation issues ect. The few positive findings posted related that as of 07 the issues had been resolved because cz usa took over the quality control role and smithed any impetfections before being sold. I never could find out if that was done by usa in turkey or usa in usa. But I put my faith in the fact that cz usa had taken over and resolved the quality control issues. So from thinking that forward I assumed I had a gun that was inspected & any issues corrected by cz usa and & problem free.
I will post update when issue with my ringneck is resolved.

 

No worries. Happens to the best of us. As far as CZ involvement in QC at Huglu. The general consensus is that after the flood of problem when CZ-USA first started selling the Huglu guns their parent company (CZUB in Czech Republic) put a lot of pressure on Huglu to improve the QC on guns that were shipped to CZ-USA. No clue if that is how it really happened, but there is no doubt that in '06 and into '07 the "out of the box" quality of the CZ/Huglu guns improved by leaps and bounds.

 

The tight choke tube issue is one I've not heard of before these two reports. Probably they (Huglu) got a batch from a subcontractor that's not to spec, and now there's a bunch of them out there, I imagine. I have no issue with any of my CZ tubes, the only bad tube I've ever had came with my 16 ga. Dickinson, the Cylinder tube had some crud in the threads. I cleaned it up, and it's OK, and I'll never use it anyway. I put IC/M in everything, and leave them alone.

 

I don't even know how to reply to this thread - too much hyperbole, too much information inferred. I have two CZ shotguns, one a 2011 gun and one a 2013 gun. The choke tubes fit just fine, screw in easily like a precision screw should. I only own one other shotgun with interchangeable chokes - my gorgeous 28 ga Red Label, and the CZ chokes go in and come out pretty much the same as the American made Ruger. I have not found a single flaw in either of my guns new out of the box.

 

I think you are right, probably just a bad batch of tubes! I tried all ten chokes from both shotguns testing to see if was just the IC mod chokes I was using, but all had to be forced to seat all the way in, some harder than others, bought a speed wrench with handle to torque em in a little easier, but as I like to change chokes for hunting to skeet I couldn't live with all that work so I got some after market chokes and they great! So that's solid proof the factory chokes are not right. But if that's all that goes wrong I can live wit it.

 

Wow! You are very fortunate.
I of my chokes will not even go all the way in and
another so tight it sacred me.
1 choke fit with precision.

 

Im really curious to see the fit once they send back my barrels and new chokes?
If the new fit is precision I want to know what was wrong to begin with.