[Berudd]

I'm not a CZ hater and have come close to buying them but are people really willing to pay that much for unproven Turkish guns?

 

[cdb1097]

What is unproven about them?

cdb

 

[2fewdaysafield]

I'm not a CZ hater and have come close to buying them but are people really willing to pay that much for unproven Turkish guns?

New models always come with a certain amount of risk regardless of manufacturer. But for those of us that have bought multiple CZ/DeHaan/TR Imports/Huglu guns and been pleased with them, we don't see it as any more of a risk than we would with any other brand regardless of where it is made. Especially with CZ-USA's 5 year warranty and OUTSTANDING customer service.

Would I buy a brand new CZ-USA/Huglu model in a configuration I have never seen before (pump) for $2,000. Hell no!

Would I take a chance on a CZ/Huglu in a new configuration for $3-400? Hell yes!

The CZ/Huglu doubles have proven themselves as reliable guns at a great price for most anything except REALLY HEAVY target shooting.

The CZ/Huglu semi-autos seem to still have some "issues" to work out especially if you don't keep them "crazy-clean", but the guys that own them and shoot them seem to REALLY like them despite their admitted foibles.

These new CZ/Huglu pumps? Who knows? They are new. But when you figure that the street price will probably be comparable to a Remington 870 Express that so many people hate it is certainly a gun I would take a chance on if I wanted an inexpensive pumpgun.

 

[Shortcamo02]

I'm not a CZ hater and have come close to buying them but are people really willing to pay that much for unproven Turkish guns?

If I think you're refering to that "Super Scroll" which MSRPs at $3900, then I can see where you're coming from. I think many people, including myself, would be skeptical putting that much money on a brand which has not fully established itself. Regardless, CZ-USA is importing them, so they must have some knoweledge that there is a market for it here.

Plus, DeHaan has been selling Huglus for $2000+ here for a while now.

 

[Berudd]

I call then unproven because if you walk on to any range in the US and ask for opinions on buying a quality, new O/U CZ will not be a front runner.

2few, I think you made my point for me. I'd drop 400 on a CZ O/U any day too. And you say they've proven themselves reliable except for high volume target shooting. For the same money I can buy a Beretta O/U that is a gun proven to be capable of standing up high volume target shooting. It seems they'd be better off trying to deliver a gun just a bit under that price point to generate sales and build a following if it proves to be a reliable gun.

I'm not knocking the CZs I'm just surprised they are marketing guns in a price range where it appears they have not established themselves a viable player.

 

[Shortcamo02]

I call then unproven because if you walk on to any range in the US and ask for opinions on buying a quality, new O/U CZ will not be a front runner.

2few, I think you made my point for me. I'd drop 400 on a CZ O/U any day too. And you say they've proven themselves reliable except for high volume target shooting. For the same money I can buy a Beretta O/U that is a gun proven to be capable of standing up high volume target shooting. It seems they'd be better off trying to deliver a gun just a bit under that price point to generate sales and build a following if it proves to be a reliable gun.

I'm not knocking the CZs I'm just surprised they are marketing guns in a price range where it appears they have not established themselves a viable player.

Agreed. But everyone has to start somewhere right? It's obvious many people are giving their field models a shot (canvasback, redhead, etc). I think it's just a matter of time (maybe a long time) before their more expensive models pick up.

 

[Beemanjohn]

Here is my take on the line-up. The pump guns look like a good deal. The 920 sitll has that horrible recoil pad on it like my 912. You can buy a nice Dehann for less than the super scroll, and have it custom made for you with much better wood. Much as I like CZ guns, I'm looking somewhere else for a $2000 sporting clays gun. And that upland gun just does not look right. (but it is priced right)

What they should do is offer 30 and 32" barrels for the Canvasback for us poor guys who want a long sporting gun at a good price. (and get rid of that recoil pad on the 912 and 920)

 

[cdb1097]

The recoil pad completes the look of the 912/920. It fits me great.

cdb

 

[2fewdaysafield]

I call then unproven because if you walk on to any range in the US and ask for opinions on buying a quality, new O/U CZ will not be a front runner.

2few, I think you made my point for me. I'd drop 400 on a CZ O/U any day too. And you say they've proven themselves reliable except for high volume target shooting. For the same money I can buy a Beretta O/U that is a gun proven to be capable of standing up high volume target shooting. It seems they'd be better off trying to deliver a gun just a bit under that price point to generate sales and build a following if it proves to be a reliable gun.

I'm not knocking the CZs I'm just surprised they are marketing guns in a price range where it appears they have not established themselves a viable player.

Berudd.....

I fear I did not make myself clear in my post. I must have because you certainly did not understand it.

I'll try again.

Unproven? Yes, the Pump guns are unproven. But at $250-$400 (realistic street price) they compare well in price to a Remmy 870 Express and would be hard pressed to not be as good a gun. And if one had as many problems as the 870 express is famous for a buyer would be dealing with CZ-USA warranty service which is MILES AHEAD of that offered by Cerberus owned Remington. So at their price point, I think the new CZ/Huglu pumps are a far better gamble than the "proven" Remington 870 Express which has "proven" itself to be little better than a POS for several years. I really think that when comparing shotguns one should compare similar platforms in the same general price range. Don't you think?

As to the CZ/Huglu doubles.....NOPE! They have not proven themselves to be the equal of a Browning, Beretta etc. But then, do you really expect a $600 Canvasback to be the equal of a $1,500-$3,000 gun? If you do, then you are simply notrealistic. Plain and simple. As you say, you can go to any range and ask about a quality O/U and NOPE....a CZ/Huglu is not going to make too many of the lists you get. FACT. But let's remember something....go to any clays range and talk with the regulars and you will be talking mostly to high volume clayshooters. And you want to know something? A lot more than half the shotguns sold in this country are sold to people who are NOT high volume clayshooters. Most shotguns sold in this country are sold to people who want them for home defense, hunting or recreational clays. That is the VAST majority of shotguns sold in this country....by a country mile. And a CZ/Huglu O/U or SxS makes a very fine gun for hunting or casual clays. And the price is going to be $600-$800....about 1/5th to 1/2 the cost of the guns the guys at the clays range you talked about would suggest.

And the CZ/Huglu doubles have proven themselves VERY WELL for the guy that shoots 5-6,000 rounds per year through any single gun.

Now....maybe you're another of these "Buy a used B-Gun boys". Well lemme tell you something. Most people that are looking for a double that costs less than $1,000 don't know enough about shotguns to tell the difference from a Gunbroker ad between a B-Gun that is a great buy and a beat up POS B-Gun. People without the benefit of a huge budget or decades of shotgun experience need a NEW gun at a good price from a company with top notch customer service.

And by the way...I know where there is a TRULY FINE Browning 525 16 gauge available for a very reasonable price. It has less than 1300 rounds through it. All of them powder puff reloads. Wanna buy it? Oh...I suppose I should disclose that in those 1300 rounds from when it was bought new it has broken 4 firing pins and cracked it's stock. So much for "Buy a lightly used B-Gun". Buying a used B-Gun is a crapshoot for the guy with a tight budget (under $1,000) and newcomers to the shotgun sports. Newbies with tight budgets should not be playing craps.

Now...If your comment about "unproven" is referring to the $1,800 (MSRP...street price will probably be about $1,600) "CZ Sporter Standard Grade then I will agree with you. NO CZ/Huglu gun has proven itself to be a serious high volume clays gun.....Yet. I wouldn't buy this gun. NO WAY. If someone is getting serious about clays and has $1,500 to $2,000 to spend there are far better choices. I should point out however that a well respected SGW member recently bought a "Ringneck Target" for use as a target gun for SxS competition. He expects to run 20,000 rounds through it the first year. He's going to keep us posted on how this CZ/Huglu "target gun" holds up to serious high volume shooting. I may find myself having to eat my words about CZ/Huglu not making a high volume clays gun. We'll see.

If you are talking about the $3,900 (MSRP...street price will probably be closer to $3500) CZ Super Scroll Combo Set, then I agree....it's not the way I would spend $3,500 for a serious target gun. But for flat out looks, it is one hell of a sexy gun and there are a fair amount of people out there that don't shoot competitively but do pop a couple of thousand caps per year and enjoy (and can afford) to show up at the club with a one hell of a sexy gun. Maybe not how you choose to spend your money, but then, who are you or I to tell somebody how to spend THEIR MONEY?

Shotguns are tools and they can also be works of art. A CZ/Huglu can be exactly the right tool at exactly the right price for a LOT of people. It can also be the wrong tool at any price for some people. And on the work of art end Huglu is the best value for $$$ to be found anywhere. A few years ago I bought a used DeHaan SxS SGr-16 for $1,100. The first time I took it to the club I was offered $1,800 for it. Huglu builds one hell of a fine piece of art.

So a CZ/Huglu may be exactly the wrong gun for you....but if you think that makes it the wrong gun for everyone then you are just plain silly.

Have a merry Christmas....

 

[Berudd]

Man, you are way to emotionally invested in this. Try to lighten up a bit. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. All that typing (ranting?) to basically agree with what I said. CZ is not a proven commodity in the $1500+ range. Obviously, when I made that initial statement I was not comparing the much less expensive guns to B guns in the $2k range. To assume I was is, as you put it, silly.

 

[Berudd]

I'd like to see them come out with something like a Redhead Sporting. Same idea as the Target but with stock dimensions more appropriate for an SC gun. If the street price was about $1k I think there would be a market for that. But, they forgot to ask me what I thought.

 

[Shortcamo02]

I'd like to see them come out with something like a Redhead Sporting. Same idea as the Target but with stock dimensions more appropriate for an SC gun. If the street price was about $1k I think there would be a market for that. But, they forgot to ask me what I thought.

I'd imagine the street price of the CZ Sporter Standard to be around 1.2k

 

[Berudd]

600 under? You might be right, I was think it would be more like 15. Without an adjustable stock the price would probably be down in the range I mentioned. It's just my perspective but if I am going to experiment with a new product in this way the cost savings must be substantial. If the Sporter is 1500 and I can get a new Silver Pigeon for 1800 that's not significant enough. If it was a grand I'd consider it.

 

[Jamescaird]

CZ sporter list $2509 internet price $1999 plus fees.
Sporter standard grade list $1799,my guess street price $1350
Redhead target last year list $1299 my local price $1125,this year list $1348.

I took a chance on the cz redhead target and the gun went back twice.All is ok now.By the end of next year should have well over 10000 shells thru it or more depending on when another gun finds me.Will have a somewhat better idea on how durable the gun might be.

All the time I spent on the skeet field,watching trap,five stand and sporting clays, have never seen another cz.CZ is going to have make some changes to make inroads into the clay sports.They may have started.Based on pics of buster brown's target and internet pics the new target has a different trigger guard,a trigger pull of 4-5lbs instead of 6.7-7.5 and a different receiver.Definately a good move.

At $2509 the Sporting is going up against the Beretta SP1 Sporting at 2012 list $2240 and some of the Brownings.CZ-HUGLU cannot afford to have many of these guns going back if their serious about breaking into this market.

 

[Cynewulf]

Here's my take. At $2200 the CZ sporter I have has better wood than either the Beretta or Browning (at least based on the pictures I've seen). That may or may not be of concern to someone. I guess the reliability factor is, however. So far so good. So it may take several years t know for sure. My 32" sporter seems more of a trap gun than a sporting clays gun, unless you shoot with a mounted gun which I don't at sporting clays. I've run all kinds of ammo through it: Winchester, Federal, Remington, B&P--no reloads yet, but all work fine. It isn't picky. It seems a good solid gun.

 

[cdb1097]

I think you are going to see CZ as a new player in the U. S. shotgun market. It will take some time, but I don't think they are going to go away any time soon

cdb

 

[2fewdaysafield]

It's going to be interesting. Cz/Huglu really seems to want to break out of the Field Gun market and into the Target Gun market. I think it will take a good number of years before that can gain any traction with the serious competition crowd, but if they can put out a gun configured for clays (O/U, 30 or 32", 8.5 lbs or so) that sells for about the same price as a base model Browning but with much nicer wood than the typical base model Browning then I think we could soon be seeing a whole lot more CZ/Huglu guns on the clays fields.

 

[cdb1097]

It's going to be interesting. Cz/Huglu really seems to want to break out of the Field Gun market and into the Target Gun market. I think it will take a good number of years before that can gain any traction with the serious competition crowd, but if they can put out a gun configured for clays (O/U, 30 or 32", 8.5 lbs or so) that sells for about the same price as a base model Browning but with much nicer wood than the typical base model Browning then I think we could soon be seeing a whole lot more CZ/Huglu guns on the clays fields.

2few, that would stop global warming dead in its tracks, the frost coming off the

of the boys up in the opinion forum would lower the temp of the earth 10 degrees.

cdb

 

[2fewdaysafield]

Well....y'know....I do believe I've heard them say it would be a cold day in hell before and serious clayshooter would use a Huglu! I wonder if it is a coincidence that it is snowing outside????

 

[cdb1097]

Very possible 2few, very possible, I may need to take a more serious look at the sporting CZ.........
after the 920, my prospective CCA gun, and Henry Golden Boy 22LR.

cdb