I have always shot an ounce of 6's after Thanksgiving in MN. Dog or no dog the shots are longer late in the season. Grouse don't have a reputation for running when knocked down, but they will run to find a place to hide if they are not mortally wounded, and they are hard to spot if they run into a hole, under a blow down, or even tight against a large rock.

 

...
My personal dog less habits have changed.
- I double tap each bird
- i follow through and shoot into the pine he dove into
- My gun is slinged around my left elbow in up ready position ALWAYS.
- Wait for more to flush
- track the bird flushed, usually get second flushes. my record is 4 flushes in 2012, I still didn't get him.
- hang a flag where i shot and another where I think I hit him. then Flag a trail where I think he flew.
- pick up those mag hulls. embarrassing!
....

I can't say, in it's entirety, that is the funniest post I have read here but...it is close.
The sling-ready position, the double-tap, the blind shot into...the pine was it?, the turkey loads...all classic, all hilarious.

Lot of us hunted dogless for Bonasa U at some point, not all of us can bring such a knee-slapping description of the activity.
Well struck, sir....totally absurd and silly and buffoon-like but....well struck indeed.

 

So I tested 1 7/8oz turkey loads in Skeet1. This gave me just a little tighter pattern due to the nature of the load, not the gun. The shot uniformity wasn't as good - not surprised as you trap shooter know (so my self rule is to double tap if possible)

How do you even get a second shot off with that kind of load? I agree with the open choke but suggest a lighter load. You might actually get a much better pattern with a lighter load.

I also recommend getting a dog, if you possibly can. It changes the game.

 

I know there are the guys that blast up the woods There are the purists who sharpshoot w a 410. And all in between. I respect all of them. We're all coming from different angles.

I was really hesitant about throwing this out there. But I wanted to paint the picture of where I am in my experience and maturity in the hunt. I had no mentor. up until just a few years ago! I had never spoken to another pat hunter. and they are tight lipped!!

I need to preface that Momma lets me leave to return to my motherland twice a year. Once for deer opener and I convinced her i NEED a special, separate Pat trip. Of course the honey do list is waiting when I come back - it's worth it.

my time boots on ground is very tight. last year I had 8 days. This year was only 1.5 days.

I think my previous problems discovered after moving to the cannon is that my shots were fair, but my choke was too little.

2011, i opened the crimp on some more powerful loads! poured out the 6 and measured 1.6oz 7.5. Worked much better in downing the birds, but I still had lots of cripples. i need to preface that the birds aren't necessarily running for the hills. They would flap their wings and move 10-20 feet buy the time I was nervous enough I'd loose them in the swamp, I'd ground swat to not loose the meat.

So here's the pine story. the first day out this year, a pat jumped 15-20 yards to my left out of dense briar. flew 45 deg to the right for heavy pines. there were several 20-40' white pines w spacing, he was heading for before he was lost. just as he dipped into the first pine, i followed through and double tapped him. hung my flag where I stood and hung another on the pine i killed. Walked around that pine and found some feathers. looked for 10 min, then looked up. there he was stuck in the pine branches about 8 feet up! First time for me.

As for the double tap, the 1100 is a heavy gun. I had mike O port this barrel (I know that's a whole different discussion if it actually helps or not). having never hunted anything else! I just don't know any better, and like the Marines, i just do w what I got. At least it makes me feel good to get 2 rounds off. most of the time i get none.

this was my 6th annual trip second time around. The pat hunt is always between Nov 1-14. by this time the broods are scattered! birds are singles, skiddish and displaced. i realy have to dig to find them. This year was the first that I felt very confident w my gun, choke, gear and hunting areas. I ll go it again in 2014 the same way as we are heading into the down cycle. Then, when I have more confidence in my shooting (& maturity for the hunt). I'll probably go to my ol' 63 using 6's in imp/mod. if i can do that! then go to the 20LW.

My wife is trying to kill off that cats; there's not way i can get a dog.

I did run into 2 guys hunting over a dog this year. I could hear them in the distance. I herd several shots. I stopped. a few seconds later! i herd a crash in the pines to my right! and one to my left. both about 30rds away. I thought holy crap! they chased them to me. I walked to the one on the left. I guess he landed on the ground in spruce pines... On MY side of the pines. he flushed and I got him. About a minute later, the dog came up an sniffed the bird in my hand. one of the gunners congratulated me. swapped a few words! tight lipped on intel and he was off. they found the brood again and opened up a few minutes later. I found it humbling to have experienced the amazing ability of a dog and this team of hunters. I know I'm missing out on that experience. but I feel like im 14 again and I'm not missing out.

The romance for me is being able hunt hunt w my father and relive my early teen hunt camp experiences. Being able to walk the old stomping grounds of my youth is priceless. it's amazing to come across some things that are still there 30yrs later. my wife sees it when i come back and knows its a good thing for all.

Oh, the other blunder is the infamous branch to face slap as you are trying get get a bead.

I'm just trying to be honest and thnx for not blasting against my cannon. I'll grow out of it. But i do recall one of the required readings mentioning some used a 10G back in the 20's-30's or something. I think that's what got me thinking about the mag.

okay you tight lippers! what are some of your lessons learned to pat maturity?

does anyone else call a Michigan ruffy a pat? I picked it up at hunt camp in the northern lower.

 

"1.6 oz"...please, my sides will not take this abuse.

Folks used to call a ruffed grouse, mountain pheasants hereabouts but continue with your spoof. {hs#

 

Not sure if this is a spoof or not but I'll act as if it isn't. In a 12 gauge, using a load like Remington Express Long Range 1 1/4 of #6 shot with either improved cylinder or modified choke should stone cold kill any ruffed grouse centered in the pattern out to about 35 yards with improved cylinder and 45 yards with modified. That is the heaviest load I would shoot for grouse or a "pat" as you call them. If I wasn't using a double gun, I would choke improved cylinder in the early season and modified in the late season. Double gun would get improved cylinder and modified early season and modified and improved modified late season. I would probably shoot 1 ounce of 7.5s for the first shot early season followed by 1 1/8 ounces of 6s. Late season I might err on the heavy side and go with the heavier loads of 1 1/4 ounce of 6s. This is all assuming that I am hunting with no dog to retrieve or find downed birds. YMMV.

 

I get it now....

 

What I've learned from the shot study is I need 3ish #6 pellets to knock em stone cold.

Interesting that my 26" skeet1 tubed mag barrel got ~29-31 dia at 30 yds w various 1oz low brass, Rem exp 1 1/4 oz ~28-30". The 7 different 1 3/4-2oz turkey's got 25-28". I recall the turkey at full choke was around 18-22" dia.

So autos and pumps can change loads to create some choke. Could shoot 7.5 low brass in the chamber, the follow up w #6 high brass for a second shot if in the mag. Gives us some options like the 2 barreled guns.

I chose a turkey that gave me 27-28"dia at 30 yds. Comparing my IC rem exp 7.5 of youth, the new round gave me a slightly smaller pattern diameter, 40 less pellets, and almost twice the ft-lbs energy. This load now puts mid Nov birds in my bag. I m pleased with that.

Now I can increase the choke and reduce my payload to isolate and test my snap gunning abilities. I've recorded my shot to kill ratio for the turkey loads. After 2014, I'll have enough data to decide the direction Ill take.

Most hulls i find in the woods are high brass 20g #6. I'm assuming majority hunt mid Nov using 20, 6, mod? Double 20, thnx your input.

Multiflora, what's your shell and choke of choice?

A 20lt tubed barrel is coming in the mail this week. Looking to test and post some more conventional loads as a comparison. I've done some patterning on my 410 @ 30yds w #6. The 410 at that distance is too few pellets to be stone cold killers and too many holes in the pattern for my conditions of shooting. be back to losing cripples again. Backwards to the goal.

 

... Multiflora, what's your shell and choke of choice?...

Dear MichiganPatsRus,

Hello
Do you mean so that I have "stone cold killer"?
If so, I favor an oak stob about 30" long, light enough to swing and yet heavy enough to make me feel like a man.
An additional plus is that if I drop it in the woods, being much different than 20 gauge hulls stranded on the leaf litter, no one really notices. The woods or bramble patches look cleaner and my secret coverts are safe.

This decision, which I pray does not tag me as a purist, was arrived at through rigorous testing and note-taking over the decades.
I tried small tag alder stobs...nah, too whippy; tried hickory since that works for hammer handles and experimented with ash for the connection to ball bats, neither was as good as a nice stob of oak.
Screw on a couple swivels, anywhere, and a sling does help on those long days afield.

As I get older, I will be honest and say that 30" is a tad too short a stob in late season as Bonasa Umbellus takes wing a bit farther away. During those times it is hard to best a 42" stob of myrtle....lighter and longer, just the ticket.
My swatting ratio remains high enough with oak or myrtle to keep me interested.

Lastly, for the pines you mentioned...I have found that a pool cue(a takedown cue is best for vehicle transport) works best, not swung as with a stob but a swift stroke to the grouse's head. Depending upon which way I want the grouse to fall, as perchance there would be a pile of bear scat to one side...I use a bit of English to the stroke. Naturally, the blue chalk easily comes off grouse feathers for those required tailgate shots back at the truck.

I'm sure my choice is not right for everyone but it sure works swell for me.
Each to their own choice.

Yours in the Upland way,
Multiflora

 

Multiflora:

THANK YOU! THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

R.

 

First off if you are out grouse hunting and enjoying it you're doing nothing wrong. While 3" 6's are not my first choice I have shot ruffed grouse with everything from Hi brass steel 2's to low brass skeet 9's. My choice of shells and gun/choke is a little different than yours but it works for me. For the last 30 years I have shot a 12 gauge auto with cylinder choke. Now as to shells everything from bargain brand 7 1/2's and 8's to high velocity 6's and 7 1/2's late in the season. The last few years I have gone to 7 1/2 trap loads, I usually buy a flat or 2 and in my experience they are worth the extra few bucks. They have extra hard shot and pattern better than the bargain brand target loads. I know you are happy with your choices but IMO I feel you would shoot more birds dead with a more open choke and hard shot. One more piece of advise, do everything in your power to get a hunting dog and spend time working with it. Even if the dog does nothing else it can find cripples once exposed to grouse. For as many grouse as I've shot the last few years I would have knocked myself silly shooting 3" 12 ga shells even out of a 1100. Good Luck.posting.php?mode=reply&f=87&t=390226&sid=6d4f7b6960204aa141c382e7d947c12d#

 

Good point...for most, it's always about the hunter being happy, that's Job #1.
Double tap dem birds.

*I wonder if anyone read any sarcasm into the above words? :lol:

 

Well, as a dogless hunter myself, I can endorse the double tap as you call it (very SAS thing to say), but apparently you are triple tapping, putting the third shot into the place the grouse flew into? That's a new one on me. What makes you think it has any effect?

And personally I favour a low brass shell with small shot like 7 1/2 or even 8. With some magnum shells in some guns, you risk blowing out your vital shot column. I wonder what would happen if you tried out your methods and shell loads on skeet? Not the same, as I well know, but it could be interesting.

 

I tend to be long winded and was trying to shorten the description to "double-tap".

Heres the long version,.. feel free to use as toilet paper if you like… Best way I can explain is to use field examples… I'll be swinging on a bird and shoot, I see the shot burst into the trunk of a tree or the dead fall the bird just dodged behind. Sometimes the bird would pop back out, sometimes not. By the time I realize what had happened and react for a follow up, its too late. I've been trying to condition myself to get 2 rounds off and don't necessary wait for confirmation of the first round. This gets rid of the reaction time for the second shot I often do not to get to take. I've used this method for close cover conditions, which is typically where I hunt. Shots aren't blindly pointed and taken. I just keep the swing going, aim, shoot the next round.

This leads in to some questions about taking the second shot so fast w a heavy mag load. I still carry the 2 point sling I got for my 1100 since age 14. I carry w the pistol grip resting against the shell pouch on my belt @ 4:30. I hold the forend @ 10:30 and the sling around my elbow. This allows the gun to hang there w little effort and my elbow rests into my belly (what I call the gun ready position. This keeps me from getting lazy w the gun and tossing over my shoulder, or down at my side). That's how I can haul the 1100 7-9 hrs a day and not feel fatigue until maybe the 4th or 5th day. So I just lift my right hand up below my chin while exending my left arm out for the shot. The sling tightens and anchors my elbow - this gives me a more secure platform. One of my Vietnam friends said this was common to sling-fire their weapon during that war. I've found coming down on the bird vs lifting up keeps the twigs clear of my face and eyes (I notice range shooter are opposite to this). Second factor is I had the barrel ported by Mike O in hopes of reducing recoil. I have to compare against a similar barrel to confirm if it really helps or just a fad of trap/skeeters of days gone by. Lastly, there's the weight of the 1100 and mag loads. And Yes, I can feel the extra 4 ounces of those payloads.

Thinking about this, the few times I come across small games hunters, I don't recall seeing slings. Any of you use a sling to support the gun while firing? Its hell on that left elbow - cramps!

The 2 shots into the pinetree is not a hellmary. Someone posted about following through in another story and letting the round go even when you've just lost sight. So I did. The first shot was just as he entered the edge of the white pine (keep in mind these are thin so I could still see movement and I've lost many birds to this particular pine patch in the past). The second shot I took as fast as I could deeper into the pine while trying to regain the track. And it worked. I did this last year on another bird as he flew up and over a wall of pines. I shot the crown of the pine just as he crossed the fulcrum to begin his descent past the tree. 2012-13 seasons, I've done this twice and both times put a bird in the bag.

After looking at my notes in 2012, I hunted 8 days on the first trip and got a 9th day in just before deer rifle trip 2wks later. In those 9 days, I averaged 4.2 shells per bagged bird using the modified 1.6oz 7.5's (Golden pheasants) on skeet. On that trip there were 3 birds I got feathers from but couldn't find. One of them was the feather trail story from above. I wing shot 3 of the birds and had to dispatch them which I didn't enjoy. And a handful of these birds I had to spend some time searching for - less time hunting. Not to mention the time spent on birds I couldn't find thinking I got 'em.

2013 was boots on ground for 14hrs in the day and a half I had to hunt. This is the first hunt using the turkeys w the pawn shop rust queen working properly. The shell to bagged ratio improved 1.5. Every bird I shot at ended up in the bag. And just minutes to locate each bird. A very short trip and too small of a sample to really know if this was a fluke. 2014, I'll run the same set up and makes appropriate changes after I get more results.

I'm happy to know there were no lost cripples and all birds were DOA, so as humane as I can get. I'm not happy about using a magnum to get me there.

Randy Wakeman's article "pellet size selection for upland game" and another Table I randomly printed off the net "shotgun barrels, chokes 'n ballistics". Got me on this path of 6's and larger payload to compensate for lost shot count. 7/8oz 20ga 8 & 7.5 shot is 359, 306 pellets respectively. My childhood load of 1 1/4oz 7.5 is 438. So I was looking for a load in 6 shot that would get me as close to 438 as I could. Most turkey mags range 1.75 to 2oz. Most common I pick up locally are 1 7/8 which gives me 422 pellets. So this is where I've made the point that old way vs new way for me has slightly decrease pattern diameter, pellet count, velocity while increasing shoulder pain, $/round and shot energy.

The 1.6 load of 2012 gave me 560 pellets at abot 30" 30yrd spread. Not many holes in that pattern when I tested it. Shell to kill ratio improvement over the 1 1/4oz obviously. From my notes, there are very few shots in the 15-20yrd range. By the time I "wake up" and swing, most are 25-35. Normally beyond 30-35yds, they are gone. By the time I get to Michigan for the hunt, The seasons been open for 50-55 days. Only the smart ones are left, and they are not hanging out in classic aspen stands, at least for me.

Moving forward, I want to trim down the pattern diameter and lighten the payload. It would be nice if I could become effective using 1oz balanced loads. Year to year hunting variability is great, but hunting the same time each year gives me some sort of standard as a control for this exercise. I'm going to hunt 7-10days each method before I make changes.

The range I shoot won't allow 6 shot nor high brass since there are houses near by. I do launch clays low and have tried them. I've never shot skeet/trap. I was shooting next to some trap/skeet guys using the public lazy launchers and they practiced gun pointed down range, perfect form - and awesome shots!. I make a point to stand in randomly turned left, turned right, sling at the ready and have someone randomly launch the clay to try and simulate field as much as possible. The guys wanted to give me some pointers, but I told them I was a snap shooter and they quickly understood what I was doing.

I keep thinking about the number of hunters in decline over the decades. Fathers can't get their sons off the Xbox. Kiddos don't even want to go in the woods b/c they'll loose facebook connection! I'm trying to put a formula together so I can make my son's first trip pat hunting a memorable one. Shooting pat is never like shooting fish in a barrel, but I'm sure most of us learned to fish (and became interested in fishing) w grandpa catching gills off the dock.

I appreciate your advice and comments. Please share some more of your lessons learned!

My 20 gauge tubed barrel came in the other day. Let me know some good rounds to use. I've never shot a 20. Thnx for the tip on hard lead!

 

Oh my, oh my my my.

 

I tend to be long winded and was trying to shorten the description to "double-tap".

Heres the long version,.. feel free to use as toilet paper if you like… Best way I can explain is to use field examples… I'll be swinging on a bird and shoot, I see the shot burst into the trunk of a tree or the dead fall the bird just dodged behind. Sometimes the bird would pop back out, sometimes not. By the time I realize what had happened and react for a follow up, its too late. I've been trying to condition myself to get 2 rounds off and don't necessary wait for confirmation of the first round. This gets rid of the reaction time for the second shot I often do not to get to take. I've used this method for close cover conditions, which is typically where I hunt. Shots aren't blindly pointed and taken. I just keep the swing going, aim, shoot the next round.

This leads in to some questions about taking the second shot so fast w a heavy mag load. I still carry the 2 point sling I got for my 1100 since age 14. I carry w the pistol grip resting against the shell pouch on my belt @ 4:30. I hold the forend @ 10:30 and the sling around my elbow. This allows the gun to hang there w little effort and my elbow rests into my belly (what I call the gun ready position. This keeps me from getting lazy w the gun and tossing over my shoulder, or down at my side). That's how I can haul the 1100 7-9 hrs a day and not feel fatigue until maybe the 4th or 5th day. So I just lift my right hand up below my chin while exending my left arm out for the shot. The sling tightens and anchors my elbow - this gives me a more secure platform. One of my Vietnam friends said this was common to sling-fire their weapon during that war. I've found coming down on the bird vs lifting up keeps the twigs clear of my face and eyes (I notice range shooter are opposite to this). Second factor is I had the barrel ported by Mike O in hopes of reducing recoil. I have to compare against a similar barrel to confirm if it really helps or just a fad of trap/skeeters of days gone by. Lastly, there's the weight of the 1100 and mag loads. And Yes, I can feel the extra 4 ounces of those payloads.

Thinking about this, the few times I come across small games hunters, I don't recall seeing slings. Any of you use a sling to support the gun while firing? Its hell on that left elbow - cramps!

The 2 shots into the pinetree is not a hellmary. Someone posted about following through in another story and letting the round go even when you've just lost sight. So I did. The first shot was just as he entered the edge of the white pine (keep in mind these are thin so I could still see movement and I've lost many birds to this particular pine patch in the past). The second shot I took as fast as I could deeper into the pine while trying to regain the track. And it worked. I did this last year on another bird as he flew up and over a wall of pines. I shot the crown of the pine just as he crossed the fulcrum to begin his descent past the tree. 2012-13 seasons, I've done this twice and both times put a bird in the bag.

After looking at my notes in 2012, I hunted 8 days on the first trip and got a 9th day in just before deer rifle trip 2wks later. In those 9 days, I averaged 4.2 shells per bagged bird using the modified 1.6oz 7.5's (Golden pheasants) on skeet. On that trip there were 3 birds I got feathers from but couldn't find. One of them was the feather trail story from above. I wing shot 3 of the birds and had to dispatch them which I didn't enjoy. And a handful of these birds I had to spend some time searching for - less time hunting. Not to mention the time spent on birds I couldn't find thinking I got 'em.

2013 was boots on ground for 14hrs in the day and a half I had to hunt. This is the first hunt using the turkeys w the pawn shop rust queen working properly. The shell to bagged ratio improved 1.5. Every bird I shot at ended up in the bag. And just minutes to locate each bird. A very short trip and too small of a sample to really know if this was a fluke. 2014, I'll run the same set up and makes appropriate changes after I get more results.

I'm happy to know there were no lost cripples and all birds were DOA, so as humane as I can get. I'm not happy about using a magnum to get me there.

Randy Wakeman's article "pellet size selection for upland game" and another Table I randomly printed off the net "shotgun barrels, chokes 'n ballistics". Got me on this path of 6's and larger payload to compensate for lost shot count. 7/8oz 20ga 8 & 7.5 shot is 359, 306 pellets respectively. My childhood load of 1 1/4oz 7.5 is 438. So I was looking for a load in 6 shot that would get me as close to 438 as I could. Most turkey mags range 1.75 to 2oz. Most common I pick up locally are 1 7/8 which gives me 422 pellets. So this is where I've made the point that old way vs new way for me has slightly decrease pattern diameter, pellet count, velocity while increasing shoulder pain, $/round and shot energy.

The 1.6 load of 2012 gave me 560 pellets at abot 30" 30yrd spread. Not many holes in that pattern when I tested it. Shell to kill ratio improvement over the 1 1/4oz obviously. From my notes, there are very few shots in the 15-20yrd range. By the time I "wake up" and swing, most are 25-35. Normally beyond 30-35yds, they are gone. By the time I get to Michigan for the hunt, The seasons been open for 50-55 days. Only the smart ones are left, and they are not hanging out in classic aspen stands, at least for me.

Moving forward, I want to trim down the pattern diameter and lighten the payload. It would be nice if I could become effective using 1oz balanced loads. Year to year hunting variability is great, but hunting the same time each year gives me some sort of standard as a control for this exercise. I'm going to hunt 7-10days each method before I make changes.

The range I shoot won't allow 6 shot nor high brass since there are houses near by. I do launch clays low and have tried them. I've never shot skeet/trap. I was shooting next to some trap/skeet guys using the public lazy launchers and they practiced gun pointed down range, perfect form - and awesome shots!. I make a point to stand in randomly turned left, turned right, sling at the ready and have someone randomly launch the clay to try and simulate field as much as possible. The guys wanted to give me some pointers, but I told them I was a snap shooter and they quickly understood what I was doing.

I keep thinking about the number of hunters in decline over the decades. Fathers can't get their sons off the Xbox. Kiddos don't even want to go in the woods b/c they'll loose facebook connection! I'm trying to put a formula together so I can make my son's first trip pat hunting a memorable one. Shooting pat is never like shooting fish in a barrel, but I'm sure most of us learned to fish (and became interested in fishing) w grandpa catching gills off the dock.

I appreciate your advice and comments. Please share some more of your lessons learned!

My 20 gauge tubed barrel came in the other day. Let me know some good rounds to use. I've never shot a 20. Thnx for the tip on hard lead!

I think the term 'double tap' is pretty clear to everyone. Like I said, I do it, except maybe when there's no heavy brush and/or underbrush and the bird falls like stone I'm sure there's no harm in using #6, I just don't do it, not with grouse I mean. Are you really using a sling when FIRING your shotgun? That suggests you're aiming it- the better thing to do when wing shooting with a shotgun is to point it, or so I believe.

 

I hunt without a dog. In the heavy cover of New Brunswick, my buddies and I tend to run 6 with modified choke and 4 shot out the fully choked barrel. I usually use a 20 gauge with a 3" shell. My 12 gauge (2 3/4") I run 6 and 4 shot as well, but the gun is choked IM/IC. When I get my sh*t together and get on the bird, it usually goes down even if its a longer shot or in cover. I run high brass ammunition. I would add, that we didn't think this up, it was passed along to us from some older more seasoned hunters. It seems to work for us. Maybe try that combo, and see if it works for you.

 

I'll be swinging on a bird and shoot, I see the shot burst into the trunk of a tree or the dead fall the bird just dodged behind. Sometimes the bird would pop back out, sometimes not.

My hunting cat Sylvester could never get Tweety Bird either. Tweety just kept dodging behind branches and trees.

You should watch for a deal on a 10ga, just knock right through those pesky branches with #4 shot.

 

Hunting grouse in East TN, I have always used the same set up. Federal Game Shock 12 ga with 1 1/8 oz of #6 shot. IC/SK early in the season and IC/MOD late. If I shoot and the bird doesn't fall, it has nothing to do with the gun/load/choke. I missed! That combo will take any grouse on earth.

 

Hunting grouse in East TN, I have always used the same set up. Federal Game Shock 12 ga with 1 1/8 oz of #6 shot. IC/SK early in the season and IC/MOD late. If I shoot and the bird doesn't fall, it has nothing to do with the gun/load/choke. I missed! That combo will take any grouse on earth.

I second you on this! Used that setup for many years hunting grouse in MI & WI when I didn't have a dog.

 

I have used the old 1220 fps 12 ga load of 6's with very good results, especially in the later season. Another shot size that is very excellent on grouse is the 7. I have used these for many years in a 20 ga high brass load and have been satisfied. Personally I do not like 7 1/2's as ove rthe years I have seen them fail on straight away up the tail shots. I have also shot more than one bird with a slightly infected area with a small pellet like an 8 in its breast. The idea that grouse are so easy to kill comes from pot shooters ground sluicing them with 410's. There are those that claim the 28 is the perfect grouse gun, I have used them and have gone back to at least a 20. Although I may try the 1oz 28 ga load this year.

DP

 

Coming late to this but as a avid ruffled grouse hunter in Michigan I chime in. My prefered shells are top of the line target loads in #7.5 for 12/20 gauge and #8 in 28 gaugeand 410 bore. The 410 & 28 gauge get most of the early season use and the 20 gauge in late October. Cyl & IC for early season and IC & LM/Mod for later season. I think the prefect late season load would be 1oz of strait #7 hard mag shot. I perfer #7.5 over #8 for grouse if the load is 7/8oz or greater. With the small loads of 3/4, 11/16, 1/2 oz the pattern dencity of #8 seems to work better. I haven't used a 12 gauge to hunt grouse sence about 1979 when it was my only shotgun. and in it the 1oz #6 rabbit & squiral loads was the best for 15 to 35 yards shooting with an IC choke.

One thing to consider is the lighter target loads are general faster than the heavier field loads so they hit harder. I you use a 12ga for grouse try a 1oz STS or AA in #7.5 or a Super X dove load in #7 if you can find them. Most 12ga target loads will be 1275 fps or faster. Refine you wing shooting if you hit them closer to the patterns center they will drop faster. Most over choke the guns. Try a Cyl/Skt & IC for when the leaves are on and Skt/IC & Mod for later. Skeet & IM are my later season chokes 90% of the time. I don't use the 1oz 28ga ammo 3/4oz at 1200-1250 fps works great and patterns better for most peolpe I know and there are 1300 fps target loads as well. Grouse don't know what gauge the pellets that hit them came from.

 

I quit using the 28ga 3/4 oz for grouse in MN. Got more cripples with them. Thing about grouse is that they do not offer the deliberate shooting many other birds offer and generally are hit with more fringe hits than other birds. After about 50 years of hunting them I want 1oz of shot. Tried the 28 for about 3 years and went back to the 20 load of 1 oz (used a 16 a lot with 1oz and sometimes a 12)

DP

 

Great inputs and thoughts guys! I really appreciate your insight!

I was told long ago to use 7.5 so I always did until I realized the amount of cripples I was creating. It sounds like a lot of you have good success mid season w #6. Looking at your inputs, I think 1 to 1-1/8oz #6 mod or improved mod on a 12 for my time of the year should be a good load.

The cannon load definately worked for me last year - I'm not bragging about it! After 2014 hunt to validate 2013, I"ll try your suggestions at the range when I begin downsizing the shell to better test my shooting ablilty. My goal at this point will be to maintain the 3 pellet body count.

How many pellets in the bird do you guys feel is the right amount to prevent cripples? I'm not talking about wing shots. And I guess this question goes to those of you using #6. I wonder if i'm trying to get too high of a density?

Infected #8 in the breast, very interesting. I have not found that yet. I saw balistics on #7, I'd like to try it.

 

A fast 1oz load #7 is all you need for lated season. I intend to make a load using Longshot or Proreach about 1275 fps. 300 pellets work very well to cover a working size pattern to get enough hits to cleanly take grouse.

Inside of 30 yards with #8 at 1200fps or fast I get great penitration. Pattern your guns you just might fine a AA or STS load will pattern better than your slower High brass you have been using. I perfure the #7.5 over # 8's and #7 will have better energy at 35/40 yards. Heck the 1300fps 1oz load of #6 is my perfered pheasant load in my 20ga. Grouse aren't hard to kill IF YOU HIT THEM RIGHT and no heavy load will make up for poor shooting. Look for the winchester dove loads in #7 and one ounce if they come that way in 12ga, they do in 20ga.

My 28ga 687 SP3 will get the bulk of the work this comimg season untill late October then I will break out the 20ga.