They don't happen often, but when they do, I err on the side of caution. 10 seconds can feel like a lifetime when you're in the box and 5 of your best buds are watching. But I feel 30 seconds is the minimum. And for God's sake, don't put the hangfired shell back in your vest or in the empty bucket.

 

Leeboy, the only times I have has a FTF was using Remington ammo with their hard primers. To answer your question, I don't wait. I just cycle the shell out and put it back into the magazine. It usually fires the second time around.

In over 50 years of shooting, I have never heard of a shell that FTF self detonating. Maybe someone has.

Understand that I like Remington ammo. Use it a lot. I like the other brands also, especially Federal. Remington's primers are very hard and if you will note after you fire several brands through the same gun, all will have deep FP impressions except Remington. It will have a shallow dent. It is the only ammo that gives me a FTF in all my guns and then very seldom.

 

Leeboy,

The procedure you have been told about is correct; having said that I have never seen or heard of a hangfire with modern ammo. What you experienced was what I'd call a misfire; ie the cap wasn't struck hard enough to initiate the explosion. This is aggronoying but not dangerous.

I think a trip to Mr Gunsmith is indicated...the chap just off the market square in Ringwood is a good bet.

regards
Eug

 

Just to get the terminology right... that's NOT a hangfire - it's a failure to fire (FTF).

The reason you keep the gun closed and pointed safely when you have a FTF is because you don't want a hangfire.

In other words, a hangfire is when there is a delay before the shell goes off - not a failure to go off at all.

I've seen a few hangfires over the years. In my experience it's almost always with reloads...

 

In all my years of shooting I've never seen or heard rumor of a hangfire. Makes me wonder if this is a relic of the past, perhaps the black powder era. This would make sense with paper shells and black powder. I could see a situation where the wax on a paper shell is compromised and since black powder and paper are so hygroscopic, it's not a stretch to see part of the powder drawing moisture while other parts remain nice and dry. That could setup a hangfire.

 

Just to get the terminology right... that's NOT a hangfire - it's a failure to fire (FTF).

The reason you keep the gun closed and pointed safely when you have a FTF is because you don't want a hangfire.

In other words, a hangfire is when there is a delay before the shell goes off - not a failure to go off at all.

I've seen a few hangfires over the years. In my experience it's almost always with reloads...

Drsfmd is absolutely correct. Wait a few seconds and carefully eject/remove the shell from the firearm. I've actually seen this before with a few factory shells although I would agree that this happens more with reloads from what I've seen over the years.

 

Absolutely I was going to jump in and say the same thing.
FTF happened to this guy shooting with us this weekend and he was shooting an O/U and it seemed that the pin on the bottom wasn't hitting the primer hard enough. It happened three times.
He just put it into the top barrel and Boom it went.
The only time I experienced HF was shooting a 50 cal. Musket build in the thirties.

 

I've seen it happen (fail to fire) with most types of firearms even rim-fire .22's and usually it's as simple as a dirty firing pin/striker assembly. Hard primers or a weak firing spring will also cause it too but most from what I've seen a good cleaning will stop the problem most of the time.

 

I have read about hangfires. I've never seen one.

I've had a few muzzle loaders go snap--boom, but that doesn't count. It would count if it was an old black powder shotgun shell in a pump shotgun, though, and you'd pumped the thing enough so the bolt was unlocked. That's why you have to push a forend on a Model 12 Winchester forward each time to unlock it, to avoid pumping a hang firing shell back and having it go off when the breach is unlocked. When it fires normally, the recoil causes your hand to go forward an unlock the slide.

It must have been a real problem once upon a time. They didn't have the internet, but they did have the sporting press a century ago, and there were terrible sad stories of blown up barrels, hang fires, and all sorts of grief we don't deal with today. Today, all we ever deal with is a very, very ocassional failure to fire, or failure to cycle.

 

Thanks for the input guys, and the correction. I assume it was just a dud cartridge, the strike was just as deep on this one as it was on the shells that did fire. I've stripped the gun right down and cleaned it thoroughly. I was amazed how clean it was, I've put about 750 rounds through it since the last total strip down and so I think I can rule out malfunction due to being dirty.

Eugene, I'm going through the New Forest next week so I might well check out the gun smith you have recommended.

The cartridges I've been shooting for the last couple of years are Gamebore Clear Pigeon 30gm/ 1 1/16oz #6(UK), these are pretty cheap but have been excellent so far. I may think about changing if this happens again.

Leeboy

 

I have witnessed one hangfire. Guy shooting sporting clays with a Browning O&U, using new Remington Gun Clubs. He swung on the target, pulled the trigger an the gun went click, lowered the gun to see what had happened an about halfway down with the gun, it went off. Fortunately he had his gun pointed at the ground in front of him. Scared the crap outta all of us. He said that in all his years of shooting, 40 plus, it was the first time it had ever happened to him.

 

I had it happen to me and a 22 rimfire. Click and nothing. So while maintaining muzzle control I counted to 10 and ejected it. Damn thing went off and the bullet hit me just bellow my right corner of my right eye. My thick skull deflected it, but I nearly lost the eye due to the tramma. Blind for a few days anyway. Felt like being punched hard. Funny thing is my right eye has taken some abuse over the years and yet I see better out of it over my left. Go figure. :roll:

 

Yeah, I have seen TWO! One was back in the Marines, and the M-1 went off after about 15 seconds. Had the guy not been waiting, OUCH!

A few years ago, I saw it happen again on the skeet range. The guy (on my squad) was about to open the gun immediately, but I yelled "STOP!" Good thing, after a brief delay of a few seconds, the damn thing went off!

Yeah, and I have seen a LOT of "FTF"s, and most of 'em are duds. But every so often ........

Better to err on the side of caution ......

BobK

 

I have witnessed one hangfire. Guy shooting sporting clays with a Browning O&U, using new Remington Gun Clubs. He swung on the target, pulled the trigger an the gun went click, lowered the gun to see what had happened an about halfway down with the gun, it went off. Fortunately he had his gun pointed at the ground in front of him. Scared the crap outta all of us. He said that in all his years of shooting, 40 plus, it was the first time it had ever happened to him.

I have never seen a proper hangfire. Yours is the first account I`ve read of what I would describe as a proper hangfire. However, I think that with modern ammo it is EXTREMELY unlikely that a strike that fails to detonate the primer, suddenly sparks and detonates the load a few seconds later!! Chemically speaking it seems unlikely. I don`t know why we are meant to hold the gun un-opened for variously quoted number of seconds eg, 10, 20 etc. Why should time make a difference?
As long as the ejection procedure is completed with the breech away from the face etc, then even if the shell were to go off then it would do so relatively safely? If a dud shell lying on the ground or inside your shell bag were to go off, it would simply burn. I don`t believe it would set up a chain reaction.

I am not sure if there are any mechanical trigger Brownings but if so, could the guy have inadvertently (second pulled) on the dismount causing the other barrel to fire and to save his blushes claimed the hangfire?

 

I have had a couple hangfires. In both instances, which were
years apart, the shells went off in less than a second after the
click.

 

I have had a couple hangfires. In both instances, which were years apart, the shells went off in less than a second after the click.

I've personally had about 10 real hangfires and have witnessed 3 or 4 more... This has been over close to 60 years span now..

75% were in highpower rifle cartridges.

I had 2 in one day just a few years back.!!! A friend gave me some .375 H&H Magnum reloaded ammo as he had sold his gun.
Don't think a hangfire doesn't wake you up with this guy! I quit after the second one...... Pulled bullets on the rest at home and the powder (IMR 4350) had decomposed. Powder was all clumped and sticky like molasses.
Old rifle ammo is a real culprit. Maybe bad powder there too. The .375 shells I shot were stored for years in a hot attic which was their demise....

Every shotshell hangfire I've seen has been from the old paper basewads shredding some and probably covering the primer.

I saw a buddy shoot an M-1 so long so fast once that when he stopped mid-clip the round in the chamber fired off several seconds later! Scared us to death and that ol' M-1 jumped right off the bench as no one had a hold of it. We yelled at Ken to empty it before it "popped" again!

But "Cook-offs" in extremely hot guns are not a hang-fire.....

But I think military machine gunners may have started this long waiting time because of cook-offs.

Off all the hangfires I've seen and/or witnessed or even heard about, all fired in a half second or less! Most sounding a lot like a flintlock's ignition.
Waiting may be a good safety procedure I guess, but I've never had a hangfire let me think much about waiting! The slowest hangfire ever with the .375 H&H just allowed me to relax and then I really got kicked!

That's why I quoted DA above as that's what I've seen as well.

Slidehammer

 

Thats really interesting, and scary. I have next to no contact with centrefire ammo. My experience is with shotgun shells and rimfire.

 

Many of You have noticed a few misfires on the trap / skeet ranges over the years. What scares me is the guys with autoloaders who just missed out on that perfect 25 , madly yanking that bolt handle in anger and shell slamming into concrete walkway. Primer face deformed by striking pin is alot more voulnerable to shock caused by such mishandling , turning that unwanted misfire into more of a problem than just missed clay.

Jack

 

Jack - I've NEVER seen ANYONE do that... is that common at your club?

 

I would not call it a "common" practice - as these are only rare occasions, but over the years I've noticed such mishandling ( from seasoned as well as new shooters) and range officers were prompt to respond. Sometimes it's just an unfortunate accident , sometimes it's done in anger - either way ... that is an accident waiting to happen.

To answer your question, this did not happen just on "my" range , but several other places i used to shoot at back in the days. The post was meant to caution and remind everyone that minor mistakes can create major consequences.

Jack

 

I agree that it's serious... it's just nothing I've ever seen before...

 

"Cook-offs, hang-fires, misfires, etc. I'm not a chemist or munitions expert, but I have seen ammo go off in a fire. True, it doesn't react like it would in the chamber of a gun, but you don't want it beside your foot, or in your hand or pocket or near your eyes when it does. Ouch!!!