I don't know what I don't know....
but I have owned and hunted with an older H&R Topper combo gun for over 40 years now.

It was the first NEW gun I bought and it was very inexpensive.
It has a 20G shotgun barrel and a .357 Maximum rifle barrel and I fitted a 12G shotgun barrel to it in the late-70s. I also had a 30-30 barrel but sold it to a friend ~30 years ago who was relentless in getting it for his Topper. I wish I had kept it now.

H&R Toppers are a very simple but sturdy design and have been in continuous production for over 100 years....probably the most basic shotgun being made. Not much can go wrong with them, but the SS design limits their real world applications.

They are a good first shotgun for a novice, but are probably not a good choice as someone's only shotgun. They are very sporting to use since you have to make the first shot count. My kids all learned to shoot long guns with the Topper as their first gun.

I know nothing of the modern NEF guns based on this design, except they now have several different receivers types, one for shotguns only, one for shotgun/rifle combos and even a rimfire version, I think.

 

I'll disagree about being a good shotgun for a novice - the fit sucks, and they beat the snot out of everyone.

Yes a lot of folks will come on here and wax poetically about how it was their first gun and they killed everything with one shot - especially the 410 folks

I think that is more a case of " the older I get, the better I was" syndrome

In short, there a LOT of better choices that can be similar in price

 

The H& R is a reliable and easy to repair shotgun as a general purpose firearm. It is not a good choice for the clay target sports.Due to its light weight and poor balance the felt recoil is a bit more than you would want to deal with for the amount of shooting you would experience with any of the clay target games.
Hope this Helps;
Chuck

 

Many of us mid century modern guys got started with one. I was handicapped with one in .410 caliber until I was 12. It was great for possums, good for snakes, fair for squirrels, ok for rabbits and worthless for anything that flew. 30 years later I shot a 10 gauge for a couple years at geese, they still weren't stocked to shoot flying targets. I'd say that if you need a shotgun to dispatch varmints around the homestead, maybe put rabbits, squirrels and the occasional turkey in the pot, they will do the job. If you want to shoot much on the run or on the wing, you need to look in a different direction.

 

This was my first shotgun. I got it when I was 12. It was a 12ga. Mod. Choked upland sniper! I killed lots of tasty things with it!

The recoil wasn't bad, so don't let the whimps talk you outta it!

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The only reason that the H&R Topper ever existed was either sheer poverty, ignorance, or petty cheapness prevented their customers from buying a good, decent handling shotgun of another design type. They handle like a two by four, kick like a rented mule, and will unfortunately last a century and stay the same wretchedly bad shotgun for generations of unlucky owners.

But other than that, they aren't a bad shotgun compared to no shotgun at all.

 

SuperXOne has a good point, they are far better than no shotgun at all!

They do typically last several generations (maybe because owners don't shoot them much) so it could be worth trying a good Morgan adjustable recoil pad to try and get one to fit. Of course then you have at least the cost of a Maverick pump involved.

Thinking about whether I'd rather have a H&R single that really fit like a shotgun should, or a Maverick pump... I could see giving the H&R very serious consideration.

 

I pointed one at 4 chukar and a duck on Friday, and every single one of them dropped. On Friday and Sunday, the H&Rs I used never failed to go "Bang!".

Of course, that's because I was running my dog in a NAVHDA test, so I had an empty gun on the chukar. The rules require that I swing on each bird, but there are two "gunners" at my side, to make sure the bird goes down. When the gun went "Bang!" that's because it was loaded with "poppers", aka Field Trial Blanks, and the duck that went down was already dead -- when you shoot the blanks, another guy with a good arm hides in the bushes and throws a dead duck out into a pond for the dog to retrieve. Unfortunately, we couldn't get Kellen Moore for the weekend, but we still have a couple of guys who can throw ducks really well.

We use H&Rs extensively in dog training/testing, as dummy guns, blank-firing guns, etc. They're cheap and abuse-tolerant, they shoot blanks just fine, and nobody feels bad about having to put them down in the mud while giving the dog some water or whatever.

But when I was one of the gunners on Sunday, and I actually had to hit flying birds, I used a Beretta O/U, as did the other gunner.

So there is a purpose for H&Rs. They serve that purpose well. It just doesn't involve live ammo other than blanks.

 

I had a H&R topper 88 12 ga that I never missed rabbits or squirrels with, and the rabbits were running 95% of the time. It was great for that stuff but I couldn't hit skeet with it, and I never used it for birds, it just didn't have the feel of a bird gun, but it was light and pointed fast which is the reason it was so good for rabbits and squirrels.

 

Believe it or not, the old Ithaca SuperSingle 66 has a bird-gun feel. I've even used it with some success on flying targets. It still kicks a lot, since it's light, but my 20 is all right. I still don't use it on birds, really, but it's a decent-handling single if you're interested in that.

 

Not to go too off topic, but what gives a gun a bird gun feel for instance? Not being a wise ***, legitimately just new and curious.

 

"There be three things which are too wonderful for me, yea, four which I know not: The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid." Proverbs 3:18,19

Hold some AyA side-by-sides, subgauge O/Us from Beretta or Perazzi, or if you can get your hands on one, something really high end like a Purdey or H&H SxS, or an O/U like a Boss or a Scottish round action. Any attempt at explanation would fall flat, but you'll know when you feel it.

 

The only reason that the H&R Topper ever existed was either sheer poverty, ignorance, or petty cheapness prevented their customers from buying a good, decent handling shotgun of another design type. They handle like a two by four, kick like a rented mule, and will unfortunately last a century and stay the same wretchedly bad shotgun for generations of unlucky owners.
But other than that, they aren't a bad shotgun compared to no shotgun at all.

I wish I had thought of that. Perfect description, and it doesn't just apply to the H&Rs.

 

I'm a big fan of H&R shotguns. I own a couple of them and several centerfires & rimfire rifles.
Once you get a good recoil pad like a Limbsaver they work just fine. I could see how some people could get mad after they spent big bucks on a nice shotgun and here is this guy with his "lousy" H&R bagging just as much game as he did. Hey, use whatever you can afford.

Robert

 

"I could see how some people could get mad after they spent big bucks on a nice shotgun and here is this guy with his "lousy" H&R bagging just as much game as he did."

LOL

This post always comes up. The thing is, I have never actually seen this happen, at least on flying game. Has anyone else?

 

got a few lite & easy to carry & load. recoil pad if ya can't take the recoil. inexpensive & serves its
purpose .Alite hunting arm thats basicaly bulletproof.

 

"I could see how some people could get mad after they spent big bucks on a nice shotgun and here is this guy with his "lousy" H&R bagging just as much game as he did."

LOL

This post always comes up. The thing is, I have never actually seen this happen, at least on flying game. Has anyone else?

Many times in my younger days. One of my dad's hunting buddies was a Cajun from south of Lafayette, LA who used only a 20ga single shot - I doubt I ever knew the make. Everytime I brought up that I wanted a pump, my dad always pointed to Mr Norman and reminded he always brought home a limit too.

 

For most, the H&R singles are not a good choice for target or wingshooting .

For carrying much and shooting little and for small game and varmints they are fine.

There's a current post in the sub gauge forum about hunting with an NEF 410. It shows it's mainly up to the shooter.

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A single shot, sure.

Our dove season is all of September, no second season, so it's over. The last day I shot doves, I shot three of them, with three shells. I wasn't even looking for doves; I was hunting Hungarian Partridge, and the doves flew over occasionally.

But I didn't do it with an H&R. I did it with a gun that handles well. It was a double, not a single, but that wouldn't have mattered. The gun handling sure as hell did. Not all singles are created equal.

 

People wax nostalgic about the bolt actions too, and they are every bit as evil handling in my opinion; worse in many cases. They were not built with wingshooting in mind, they were built to sell cheap. And every time someone points out how well someone shot or shoots one. I can only wonder how well they might have shot with a decent handling shotgun. Thanks to the wonders of modern manufacturing, the cheap pump, which can be a good wingshooting gun, has totally supplanted the bolt guns. All I am aware of being made now in bolt guns are the slug models, which is much more in line with the design.

 

"Handles like a two x four". I've read this analogy several times when someone is describing how a cheap shotgun feels to them.

I've picked-up a few shotguns but not enough and lumber most of my life.
My assumption is that most who use this analogy do not know a 2x4 from a 2x6 without the aid of a tape measure. Or a 22 oz. corrugated head hammer from 13 oz. smooth or a sidewinder from a worm drive saw.

I think shotguns are like tools and musical instruments, some people can just do a lot with a little and others cannot do well with even the best.

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For most, the H&R singles are not a good choice for target or wingshooting .

For carrying much and shooting little and for small game and varmints they are fine.

There's a current post in the sub gauge forum about hunting with an NEF 410. It shows it's mainly up to the shooter.

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I have a shooting buddy that is on a tight budget. He wanted to get a shotgun for trap shooting and hunting. He chose a H&R Pardner 20ga. I put a Limbsaver pad on it for him. He loves that shotgun! He does pretty darn good with it on the trap range. In fact I have seen him shoot better scores with that H&R than many people with shotguns costing a whole lot more. I know when he goes bird or small game hunting with it he will do just fine. One cool thing about H&R's is you can send the receiver and forend to the factory and have it fitted with different barrels and different calibers. For a shotgun you can get anything from .410 up to 12ga. I wouldn't look down on a fellow who carries a single shot. Chances are he knows how to use it.

Robert

 

"He does pretty darn good with it on the trap range. "

Last I checked, "pretty darn good" wasn't an option on any score sheet. How well does he shoot?

"I know when he goes bird or small game hunting with it he will do just fine."

How do you know that? Some GOOD trap shooters can't hit the broad side of a barn when they don't get to pre-mount and the targets aren't predictable. Pre-mounted trap shooting encourages fitting oneself to the gun, which doesn't bode well for field shooting.

 

No doubt about it some people will shoot one well. Some people can pick up just about any gun and shoot the thing well. Of course then there is also real trap and pasture trap, and hard to hit game and not so hard to hit. If someone really thinks an H&R is a great gun, buy it and enjoy it. It ain't like a $300 bottle of wine, if it's not all they had hoped, they still got something to sell and recoup some money.

 

"Handles like a two x four". I've read this analogy several times when someone is describing how a cheap shotgun feels to them.
I've picked-up a few shotguns but not enough and lumber most of my life.
My assumption is that most who use this analogy do not know a 2x4 from a 2x6 without the aid of a tape measure. Or a 22 oz. corrugated head hammer from 13 oz. smooth or a sidewinder from a worm drive saw.
I think shotguns are like tools and musical instruments, some people can just do a lot with a little and others cannot do well with even the best.
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I don't know about "most", but don't bet on all.
I tend to shy away from that description for fear of insulting a 2x4 more often than not. One can build cabinets with that 22 ounce framing hammer, but you probably don't. For a reason. Same with shotguns.