I dont think so... most likely its more of a case of the rose colored glasses finally cleared up.
Perhaps a lot of folks associated the name with a really good cop show from the 70s...who knows.
There are fads and fan-Boi's for everything from shotguns to bubblegum, and eventually they calm down and see things for what they are...a slightly overpriced mechanical device that is never 100% perfect.

 

I believe their quality has fallen off a cliff. Taking observations between new and old guns, failures I have seen in the field, quality issues on the store shelf (mostly fit and finish, but that is usually tell tale of general problems), and general feel.
I had (2) A400 xcels. One bought a few years before the other. MASSIVE difference between the guns. The newer one was not as smooth, the chokes did not screw in as easily as they should, it would jam if not kept extremely clean. The newer one just did not feel as substantial as the old one.

It is not a new idea that when a company gets super busy quality and QC degrade.

 

According to this site, all guns are cr@p. Take the end of the world with a grain of salt

 

Here's an anecdote:

I walked into Cole's looking at the DT's and they handed me a 'Cole's Special' DT-11 black. It had trigger work, a custom stock, and an 'action job' so it wasn't like breaking a 2x4 in half to open. When I inquired if Beretta had gotten that bad that a new gun had to be worked on the two employees just kind of looked at each other and nodded.

That said, they claimed that barrel regulation issues you hear about are fairly rare and usually a choke concentricity issue and not a barrel regulation issue.

 

That said, they claimed that barrel regulation issues you hear about are fairly rare and usually a choke concentricity issue and not a barrel regulation issue.

There is a group of 6 or so of us that shoot together quite regularly. This is the same conclusion we seem to have come to. Don't use factory Beretta chokes and you will most likely be happy with how (and where) the gun patterns.

 

I think the a300 Outlander line is made in the USA. I could be wrong though?

 

the only major thing i have noticed with beretta "quality" is the wood today seems a lot plainer and uglier on the entry level guns than it used to. I also don't love the faux woodgrain painted on many of them now. i don't think the high end guns have gone down in quality at all. I'm sure you always have some variability in mfg, but that's always been there. I got a sig pistol the other day that had no rifling in it. barrel was just out of spec and it got missed in qc, but i would still say sig makes a great product. i view lack of concentricity in a choke, or misregulation issues as that kind of QC issue more than anything else.

 

Yes, on a fast freight to the land down under.
Blame Turkey for the cheap mess.
Mike

 

Gosh, I bought a new A400 Xcel last year. Runs great and almost everyone I let shoot it buys one. Factory chokes work fine. Beretta is the biggest sporting shotgun manufacturer in the world which makes it a target for every keyboard pundit. Do they make guns that aren't perfect? Of course they do, but I know someone who ordered a new Purdy smallbore over/under that had such poor regulation they had to take it back and build him new barrels. That was on a $100,000 gun.

 

Beretta has changed something in their manufacturing. I have various years of vintage and the newer they become, the worse the quality. Wood is better, barrel steel quality seems better, bluing seems tougher, etc. idk but something is up.. My 694 was a disaster but my older 690 was better. My even older A400 is better built than both the OUs..

 

Here we go again 🥴

 

Not impressed with Beretta except for their pistols but that is just me. Would I buy a Beretta shotgun? Sure, if I liked the fit and the price was right but I am not actively looking for one.

 

I only have anecdotal evidence, of course, but the 686s I've been seeing in store seem to have worse fit and finish than their older guns; the 486 that I owned was poorly jointed and had a bluing defect straight from the factory.

 

Unfortunately without any actual warranty or repair stats this will likely only be a subjective discussion.

I own guns from most of the major manufacturers including Beretta. Last week I also happened to pick-up a new entry level 686 sporting to add to the collection. It along with the other Beretta's work and shoot just fine as expected.

I do agree though with the earlier comment about Beretta wood looking a little cheap on the entry level guns. That and they no longer provide extended chokes on the entry level 686 even though it's a dedicated clays gun. Still get a hard case with it. But I guess they are doing what they can to keep the price around of under $2,500.

 

Mine seems to be working, A400 Xcel Sporting, ( only 711 rounds through it) and my wife's AL391 20 Ga has had no issues with it, (only 2,193 rounds through it)

cdb

 

Not necessarily a QC point, but a gunsmith friend of mine has worked on all the major competition shotgun brands for 10+ years. Anecdotally, he said the 680 series / older Berettas are more robust internally (small parts, etc.) than the newer 690 series and that he sees far fewer issues with them. Of course, I suspect there are fewer 680 series who still put 10k+ shells / year through their guns and the 690s likely see more volume. Just relaying one experienced professional's opinion. Carry on

 

All 3 of my Berettas are great. The newest is a 2022 686 20 gauge sporting. The rib is a little weird but everything else is great.

 

I speculate that the fall in wood quality just reflects the growing scarcity of high grade walnut. They used much of the European wood up making rifle stocks for the world wars. The prices of really nice blanks are through the roof!

 

My wife’s gun has broken 4 or 5 hammer springs. Mine only 3. This does not mean the guns are horrible.

c’mon man

 

Perazzi's?

 

Never have seen a thread titled: Has _ quality really improved lately? Just the nature of business and manufacturing I suppose.

I own a new Beretta 686 SP1. Wasn't perfect when I received it but Beretta stood behind the corrections. Of course, my expectations may be different than some. Two grand was a lot of money to me, but not for an entry level Beretta.. end of the day I still have a gun that fits "me" great and can hold up to more rounds than I'll ever put through it. A perfect gun - no, a great gun - yes.

 

Naaaah. It's humans nature...

Computers for design, cnc, materials, chemicals, i.e. technology gives really good stuff. We just perceive it differently.
Yes, fit and finish probably was better 50 years ago, but it's again because of humans nature - we want to pay less.

As was mentioned before - "good" stuff costs the same over the time. Market balances everything out. Amount of materials, labor, etc is the same. Newer stuff with same quality is cheaper! Because of the new technologies. glock is a great example. Is it better than 2000$ auto pistol. No! It looks ugly, feels ugly. But it works and costs 500, not 2000.

682e in 2012 was 4600, in today's $ it's 6200. But by some reason 694 is not 6200, it's 4900, for 6200 one can have this:

Guess how many of 682 would be sold if people could have 694 with tsk for the same money. Answer is very simple: none.

But if we take a look at dt10-dt11 nothing changed in them. New barrels may be, a little bit more cnc, but no big changes. They cost same years ago and now... literally the same: 2012 dt10 was 7500, which is 11000 in 2024 $, and dt11 is exactly this number. I'd assume other major premium guns are very similar. Perazzi, Krieghoff.

And new kids in the block play the same game: new brands are almost always cheaper with comparable features/quality in the beginning. When they get their auditory - prices become "real". Blazer, Zoli. Now Rizzini is trying the same trick with their br460. Great features and looks very very solid. And support is very good. Can be had for less than 8000.

But they all are going to die soon...
Turkey does not care about EU pollution requirements. And they already copied mx12 and dt11

It's just the matter of time for people to realize - in the world of computers/cnc manufacturer does not matter. And yildiz is as reliable as original. CNC became good enough to have o/u made like that (tolerances)

 

Steady cost reductions are the history of every American shotgun. We want lower prices.

"A good handgun is worth an ounce of gold." This old quote helps explain inflation and the economy. In the late 1880, you could get a Colt Single Action Army for a $20 Gold Double Eagle (1 oz) coin.

That seems like a steal, until you consider that in 1880, the average American man earned $545 per year. That Colt .45 revolver was two weeks of a man's pay.
You can still buy a Colt Single Action Army- for $1800 dollars. Gold is $2,034 per troy ounce today. As artistic as that .45 is, I had a Freedom Arms .454 Casull ($3,500) which is the best of hand craftsmanship, new modern materials, and machine tooling .

Here is what the average guy thinks is very good: Glock Model 19. $500. No craftsmanship, no lovely wood, no blued metal, jet-age plastic wherever can be engineered. The trigger is so horrible by the standard of $1800 pistols as to be laughable, yet the users don't know any better. All of the parts fit together without a gunsmith, and it goes 'bang' most every time.

You'd think everyone but pistol aficionados would buy a $500 pistol. After all, it's sort of "good" and only costs 1/4 ounce of gold, but no. The chat boards are full of people saying how their $400 Canik (Turkey) is just as good as a Glock, and people complaining about trouble with their $300 Tisas Turkish semi-auto.

How does this relate to Beretta?

Back in the late 80's I bought a very nice 686 Ultralight for $1400. I think I was making $32,000 a year as a Research Engineer. That was real good money. That shotgun cost an Engineer a bit more than two weeks pay. (2.27 weeks).

The median pay for an engineer for with my experience back then is about $79,000 per year now. 2.27 weeks at that pay is $4,100. A brand new UltraLeggaro is $3,000.

Instead of comparing a $3,000 Beretta shotgun to what, due to inflation, used to cost $4,000... we should look at their $4k guns.

How can Beretta be offering the same gun for 25% less? Nice figured hardwood is not getting cheaper. There has been no breakthrough in CNC machining. Something has to give. Because we want cheaper shotguns yet expect the same features, quality, and customer service.

"We're number 2. We try harder." - Avis car rentals. Back in the 60's and 70's, Avis was the 'little guy." Why rent a car from them? Because they were going to give you better service than the big company, Hertz. Well, it used to be well known that Browning made the best shotguns. Even though they moved from FN in Belgium to Japan, to reduce costs. And then had a salt-wood debacle as they struggled to reduce costs.

Beretta had to earn it's American brand loyalty in the late 80's. And they did. The 686 series is still a masterpiece. But now they sit at the top of the heap, and have to find a way to offer cheaper shotguns without spoiling their brand name. So there is Benelli and Franchi.

Is a $2,000 Franchi Instinct SLX as good as a $3,000 Beretta Ultraleggaro as good as a $5,000 Guerini Tempio Light? No fair!

Is a $500 aluminum frame Yildiz as good as a $2,000 Franchi? No. But for many purposes, it's good enough.

In general, I believe the Beretta has earned it's reputation as one of the top two over and under shotgun products in the world and they can rest on their laurels. I would buy one. Except I believe that Fabarm (Fabarm and Syren belong to Ceasar Guirini) is the new company that says "We try harder." They need to provide extra value because their brand is not yet well known. I believe the quality is right up with Beretta and Browning, or better, at the same price points. Fabarms $3,000 Light shotgun has Randy Wakeman's money. Me? I got the same gun but in steel frame.

Just try to buy a pump action shotgun as good as a 1940's era Ithaca Model 37, Remington Wingmaster or Winchester Model 12 today. You simply can't. They would cost too much to produce. My lovely 1946 12 gauge pump that I got used for less than $300 would cost about $1700 today. Let's face it, there are much better semi-autos now for that kind of money. But for $400? No way.

 

Today's engineer has the product warranty firmly in mind as they go about their duties. That is todays standard, that it makes it through the warranty period.

 

been kinda car shopping and read the exact same statement about upscale vehicles. BMW happened to be the subject and it was said that BMW builds cars for the first owner only and said owner only keeps a vehicle for 3-4 years.

 

Yes on the declining wood quality. Not just entry guns unless a SP3 is now considered entry level. It ought to be offensive what Beretta considers to be grade “2.5”.

That said I just purchased a Silver Pigeon V last week and wood quality was a major factor in my decision. If the Silver Pigeon line is strictly a difference in wood and engraving I figured I would spend the money on something that actually had nice wood and engraving. Hopefully the gun is problem free as I was hesitant to buy a new Beretta.

 

Yes on the declining wood quality. Not just entry guns unless a SP3 is now considered entry level.

The Silver Pigeon series has long been considered to be Beretta's entry-level O/U.
It is the least expensive O/U they offer.

 

1) regulations regarding wood harvesting has left Beretta as well as other wood-dependent industries like guitar manufacturing with uglier if not lower quality wood to work with. Beretta has been trying various tricks like their grain-enhancing and even creating grain and wood that had none to begin with as well as simply manufacturing particle board stocks with a printed veneer.

2) environmental regulations have caused Beretta to look to alternatives to chrome-lining barrels. While Beretta claims that the new nitride process is “almost” as good as chrome….well….almost as good is still not as good as chrome.

do these things affect quality?

 

Can you imagine what type of reputation gunmakers may have had if this forum existed in the 80’s?

 

My post still applies.