Yes

 

Use #4 buckshot for HD. Most shots are taken under 25 feet.

 

#4 is the correct answer unless you don't really care about your neighbor's house...

 

Much $ spent on testing, independent and paid for with your tax money suggests otherwise. 00 buck protects our house, nothing less, ever.

 

The OP asked if his 00 is gtg, he isn't giving enough info to recommend the smallest buckshot made, imo

 

Not to mention not everyone lives ‘arsehole to bellybutton’

 

Well......no......I'm not too worried about my close neighbors cause I don't have any. Hundred yards might be the closest one. But aside from that, just wondering if 6 pellets of 00 Buck is enough to do the job. Not something I'd want pointed at me.

But beyond that........the two sizes readily available for reloading use are #4 Buck and 00 Buck. Given a choice of 7/8 or 1 oz of #4 or 6 pellets of 00 Buck, which would you chose and why?

 

Well......no......I'm not too worried about my close neighbors cause I don't have any. Hundred yards might be the closest one. But aside from that, just wondering if 6 pellets of 00 Buck is enough to do the job. Not something I'd want pointed at me.

But beyond that........the two sizes readily available for reloading use are #4 Buck and 00 Buck. Given a choice of 7/8 or 1 oz of #4 or 6 pellets of 00 Buck, which would you chose and why?

You do NOT want to use reloads for self defense! Use factory loads only for that. It has nothing to do with effectiveness. It's all about perception and keeping some prosecutor or civil suit attorney from painting a picture of you as some "mad scientist" type individual cooking up some "evil" load in hopes of being able to use it on some poor, unsuspecting home burglar. It's not worth the risk. Spend a few bucks more and buy factory loads for self defense.

 

My preference for inside the house is #4

 

#4 Tungsten, otherwise #4 silver for Vampire protection.

 

The debate on what size shot to use for home defense is endless. I do not know what the answer is. I do know what we learned many years ago when we were allowed to shoot up an old farmhouse that was being torn down. Regardless of shot size, you do not get much pattern at distances inside a house. We were using our field barrels with lead bird shot and a box of steel shot. Patterns smaller than a baseball with #6 lead will blow right thru plaster and lathe walls. Wads go thru drywall. Smokeless powder makes lots of smoke in the house. If you touch off a 12 ga in a small room, you may be hearing that shot for the rest of your life.

Attached is a picture where someone touched off a steel shot load inside a mobile home at duck camp. I wasn't there when it happened and don't know the whole story. I kept sweeping BB's up off the floor at camp and then discovered the hole in the paneling. It looks like the wad had fairly good energy when it hit the wall.

 

12 gauge shotgun loads for LE duty use

6/2/12 Until recently, the 12 gauge shotgun has remained the universally accepted shoulder fired weapon for United States law enforcement general purpose use. While law enforcement 12 ga. shotguns are typically loaded with #00 Buckshot and offer outstanding incapacitation potential and...

pistol-forum.com

The link is to a summary of a well known wound ballistics researcher. He says #1 or larger is good and recommends #1 Federal Flight Control as ideal.

 

12 gauge shotgun loads for LE duty use

6/2/12 Until recently, the 12 gauge shotgun has remained the universally accepted shoulder fired weapon for United States law enforcement general purpose use. While law enforcement 12 ga. shotguns are typically loaded with #00 Buckshot and offer outstanding incapacitation potential and...

pistol-forum.com

The link is to a summary of a well known wound ballistics researcher. He says #1 or larger is good and recommends #1 Federal Flight Control as ideal.

Unfortunately Federal no longer makes LE132 15 pellet #1 buckshot.

 

Much of the commentary noted in the responses is one of the reasons I chose to start teaching defensive shotgun classes. Again, I say Defensive shotgun. The emphasis is on who to safety handle and use the gun in defensive situations. If you choose to use this type of tool as a defensive gun, it is critical that some training or overview of what the gun use of the tool is all about. Training includes safe gun handling and use of the gun in defensive purposes. Types of loads and types of shotguns are covered to assist the student in choosing to use the tool for defensive purposes. Safe gun handling includes storage and choses that must be made when the use of the tool is chosen… I suggest that if this is the tool chosen that the owner will get some training and not just take the tool load it and sit it behind the door or in the closet and believe(hope) they can manipulate the gun when needed.

Defensive Shotgun I

Use of the shotgun for DEFENSIVE purposes.

www.eventbrite.com

 

My first shot is #4 buck followed by a row of #1 buck and then a couple 00 buck.

 

effective... just a thought.. Most encounters with a shotgun are over in 2-3 rounds...One Goal for a defensive shotgun... "eliminate the conflict as soon as possible"

 

00 buck is about .330" in diameter vs #4 buck which is .240". 9 pellets in a 00 buck shell vs 21 to 28 in a #4 buck shell = combined diameters (if laid out as a flat disc, not considering air gaps between individual pellets) is 2.97" vs 5.04 inch. After all the fancy math, 00 buck is great but 21 to 28 pellets, each bigger than a .22 could also do the job, especially if they're all delivered at once. Ultimately the choice is up to the individual shooter

Long before the trigger is pulled there are other factors to consider; like are you in a rural area or a tract home? Very few of my neighbors would be happy to be awakened by the sound of gunfire next door, so plan on the residual effects ($#!t storm) lasting sometimes for months. How broadminded and sympathetic is your Home Owner's Association?

Practice, practice, practice... Shooting at the range is NEVER going to fully prepare you for shooting inside your house where you have no backstop and may have multiple moving targets that just might shoot back.

Most home invaders don't count on armed resistance, facing that has caused more than one "crew" to break and run. Even a .22 can be deafening if you're not expecting it.
There are few sounds more eloquent than that of a shotgun slide being racked in a darkened room. Gaining the psychological advantage is something the homeowner needs to do ASAP.

IF you get the bad guys on the run, stop shooting. A fleeing person is no longer a threat and firing at them can turn you into the bad guy.

I have a great Benelli M2 at the ready-- and locked in my gun safe (so I'm not looking at a lawsuit in case some kid breaks in, steals one of my guns, uses it, and I get sued.
Most people know better than to leave an HD weapon out where the bad guys could get to it first, but there a few...

I minimize looking like a potential target by not having a place that looks like it's worth the effort. No expensive ski boat in the driveway, just a mid-90s work truck. No big suburban palace hinting at treasures within.

If all else fails, I reach for my cell phone, Beretta 92f, and am sure to give the 911 operator my description and that I'm armed. ("Armed homeowner" seems to shorten response time considerably, and giving the LEOs my description lessons the chances of me getting shot).

 

I've shot #4 buck several times out of a 20 ga. So #4 buckshot will definitely do the job on an intruder. Ive killed deer with 12ga 00 buck, which is obviously way better if you are anticipating attacks from predators. It will penetrate the thick skin of a bear better, but in a home or apartment it is very likely that 00 buck will penetrate several walls putting children, or other people at risk. I would suggest a round or two of #4 followed by a few rounds of 00 just in case.

 

On a few of my engagements while deployed and while on MSG, I've had to use 12ga 00 Buckshot against enemy combatants and insurgents. I had RoE that dictated how I should destroy/end an adversary in a combat environment, and 00 Buck is extremely effective without a doubt. In a HD scenario, I've got no problem using 00 Buck to STOP the threat.

I choose to use #4 Buck in my HD shotguns (#1 if I can find it) because of it's performance, but also because my Wife can handle it much more proficiently than 00 Buck in case she has to handle business in the house. Sure, #4 can still penetrate walls/floors as well as 00 Buck but the Mrs. shoots better and feels more confident with it. That's a decent compromise that still gets the job done, and makes me feel that much more secure if I'm not around. She does like the 12ga 00 Buck mini-shells in her M&P12 though...

 

On a few of my engagements while deployed and while on MSG, I've had to use 12ga 00 Buckshot against enemy combatants and insurgents. I had RoE that dictated how I should destroy/end an adversary in a combat environment, and 00 Buck is extremely effective without a doubt. In a HD scenario, I've got no problem using 00 Buck to STOP the threat.

I choose to use #4 Buck in my HD shotguns (#1 if I can find it) because of it's performance, but also because my Wife can handle it much more proficiently than 00 Buck in case she has to handle business in the house. Sure, #4 can still penetrate walls/floors as well as 00 Buck but the Mrs. shoots better and feels more confident with it. That's a decent compromise that still gets the job done, and makes me feel that much more secure if I'm not around. She does like the 12ga 00 Buck mini-shells in her M&P12 though...

That is a wise decision. Shotgun can be a community weapon and if that is what she can confidently handle, that is the right call.

 

Very hard to beat Federal LE 00Buck Flight control. Amazingly tight at 25 yards and even tighter at what would be the longest interior shot in my home, 12 yards. Used this on the job for many years. I do not have any penetration to neighbors to be concerned about.

 

Number 1 Buckshot is .30 caliber; it is the superior choice as defined by the International Wound Ballistics Association: “Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.”

 

As near as I can tell, aside from large size of the pellets, #1 reason for using 00 buckshot in traditional 12 gauge is pellets will stack in 3's inside a 12 gauge hull, but that means gas check or seal, then felt wads, etc. The shot riding either nekked down the tube or inside a wrap. So with #00 buck, you can have combinations of 3's.........each being 1/8 oz. So 9 pellets of 00 Buck being a 1 1/8 oz payload. 12 pellets......1 1/2 oz magnum type payload or move that on up to a 3 inch hull. But #00 Buckshot will not stack in 3's inside a wad. They will stack in 2's, but have to have a cup deep enough to hold them, and not many of those exist anymore.

I dropped size down to the 0.315 version of #0 buckshot, and 9 of those will also stack in 3's inside most wads. Payload about 15/16 oz.

Would be curious to know stack pattern of #1 buckshot, inside a wad. 4 rows of 4? And what is payload weight?

 

Unlike many wingshooting versions of the Model 37, the Ithaca defense model is not a take-down version. It has a solid frame with the barrel permanently threaded into its all-steel receiver similar to center-fire rifle constriction and that employed by the Ithaca Deerslayer II and III. It is a very strong system, as solid threads are obviously stronger than interrupted threads of the same length. By virtue of the bottom loading and bottom eject, the M37 goes a long way towards being ambidextrous. The trigger guard safety is set up for the right-handed shooter, but is reversible if you desire. The M37 is chambered for 2-3/4 in. and 3 in. shells, and is cylinder bore. The receiver is machined from an eight pound block of steel, and its barrel is made of 4140 chrome-moly. Despite the Ithaca’s robust, all-steel construction it was the lightest gun tested.

At 12 yards, my Ithaca produced the above pattern using 2-3/4 in. Remington #0 Buckshot. The large hole low and to the right is the wad blowing through the target.

 

BTW, if someone wanted to make a single wad for use with both buckshot and slugs, this might be a good candidate to pattern it after. The old Alcan Flite Max. Cup is identical on all, differing only in size of fiber insert.

Size the cup to fit some modern hull........then offer filler inserts to vary stack height. With this wad, you can stack any size of buckshot......#00 and smaller........and/or most slugs that are intended to sit inside a wad. There is no collapsable area.

 

Modern wads are either for straight walled hulls such as Federal or any of the imports, or tapered wall hulls such as the Rem and Win. The heavier the shot charge, the shorter the cushion area. To reduce payloads fiber 16ga wads fit in 10ga plastic wads, 20ga fit in 12ga wads. Loading BS is a little different than loading birdshot. For best patterns a special filler is used. That, and you want the correct size BS so you have it it layers. It has to stay in it's position going down the barrel or it will want to squeeze into the pockets around it and come out deformed giving you fliers almost instantly resulting in really poor patterns. I found all this out after a failed week of goose hunting. Back in the shop a fellow showed me a write up by White Labitories with high speed film. There is data just for BS and fillers.

 

I don’t think many understand the distance it takes for a pattern to spread. In house distances will usually be close. If you look at the paneling photo above that’s a great example.

 

I'm old enough to be collecting social security, yet never once have I ever had an intruder of felt the need to let fly a load of buckshot on anything but animal varmints. As a group, they tend to not be very litigious.

So a small supply of commercial buckshot or slugs ought to last me a while. Perhaps forever. So not too concerned about that. However, in the event of widespread civil unrest, a small stash won't last long and will not be available to replace. So I have the ability to reload both buckshot and slugs, and in ample quantities. With just about any press, both are easy to do using normal reloading supplies and techniques.

Hopefully those will never be needed either, but in the event they are, I won't come up empty for lack of means.

 

The truth of the matter, as I see it, is that in 99.99999994275% of home defense situations, both #4 and 00 and everything in between will do you just fine. Paul Harrell did some videos on buck sizes and best for home defense, even considering if you live in an apartment complex, etc. If I'm remembering correctly, he concluded that #1 buck was the ideal size, though it was somewhat splitting hairs.

Learn to handload and make your own buck and experiment and see what you like best. Finding single 0 on the shelves is near impossible right now, but if you handload, you can have a box ready and on your way to the range to test it in less than an hour!

 

#4 Buckshot.

IF anyone else is in the house, OO buck will go through at least one wall, probably more. The reason to use the #4 is more pellets and better control of your surroundings. Sounds like you are not wanting 3" mag or some super shell. Another one that comes across pretty good would be a Turkey load with copper shot. I keep some 2 3/4 Winchester #6 Turkey loads with 1 1/2 ounces of #6 copperplate pellets. In court you definitely cannot be accused of loading ammunition to "kill a intruder" and if something happens, you will go to court, you will have to defend yourself and you will be paying for it the rest of your life. So OO buck is overkill inside a home, #4 buck will definitely do the job but so will a strong Turkey load and with 4, 5 or 6, you have more pellets to stop a intruder.

If you are 5-10 feet away from someone, you can shoot them with #8 or #9 and it will stop them. Across the room the pattern will open up more. All this assumes that you are using a cylinder bore choke so the pattern spreads. A tight choke and birdshot is devastating at close range but I would not even begin to use that. Find a old door or plywood and try your load at different ranges, you will see in a hurry what works.

You have asked the age old question on what is enough for personal protection. Good luck finding a answer that suites your need!

 

#4 Buckshot.

IF anyone else is in the house, OO buck will go through at least one wall, probably more. The reason to use the #4 is more pellets and better control of your surroundings. Sounds like you are not wanting 3" mag or some super shell. Another one that comes across pretty good would be a Turkey load with copper shot. I keep some 2 3/4 Winchester #6 Turkey loads with 1 1/2 ounces of #6 copperplate pellets. In court you definitely cannot be accused of loading ammunition to "kill a intruder" and if something happens, you will go to court, you will have to defend yourself and you will be paying for it the rest of your life. So OO buck is overkill inside a home, #4 buck will definitely do the job but so will a strong Turkey load and with 4, 5 or 6, you have more pellets to stop a intruder.

If you are 5-10 feet away from someone, you can shoot them with #8 or #9 and it will stop them. Across the room the pattern will open up more. All this assumes that you are using a cylinder bore choke so the pattern spreads. A tight choke and birdshot is devastating at close range but I would not even begin to use that. Find a old door or plywood and try your load at different ranges, you will see in a hurry what works.

You have asked the age old question on what is enough for personal protection. Good luck finding a answer that suites your need!

Maybe, maybe not. I cast up and coat pellets that finish at .325" ... but, more importantly, I load low recoil, low velocity shotshells. That makes a difference and YMMV.