fad -- Here are some of my pattern numbers to give you an idea of how they perform in my gun compared to Xperts.

Pattern results from a 12-gauge 3" Remington 870 Special Purpose with a 28" barrel and Carlson extended chokes (pattern average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, in-shell pellet count average of five, and true choke constriction from bore gauge).

12 GA 3" FEDERAL PREMIUM BLACK CLOUD FLIGHT-STOPPER STEEL LOAD
1 1/4 oz #2 steel (91 regular zinc plated steel pellets + 53 FS steel pellets = 144 pellets) @ 1,450 fps
40 YARDS w/ Carlson Extended Chokes
Carlson Ext Mod / Mid-Range (.017" const.) / pattern 100 (69%)

12 GA 3" WINCHESTER XPERT HI-VELOCITY STEEL LOAD
1 1/4 oz #2 steel (146 pellets) @ 1,400 fps
40 YARDS w/ Carlson Extended Chokes
Carlson Ext Mod / Mid-Range (.017" const.) / pattern 106 (73%)

They do not shoot tighter pattern in my gun/chokes but now you can be the judge, good luck.

 

Is black cloud worth the money?

No.

 

X2.

 

If you wanna reach out to 45 yards with steel, you probably should be using at least #2 shot which your choke will likely pattern tighter than #4 anyways. You would have to pattern it to find out.

 

We shoot ducks/geese fairly close over decoys mainly. After a less than completely satisfactory outing where we used Black Cloud my buddy and I took it to the club's patterning board at about 30 yards.

I found it clumped up and very spotty. I do not have a "specialy" BC choke and rather shy away from such stuff. This was with an SBE II and factory IC choke. I just didn't care for it.

I have no idea what it patterns like out at 45 yards but I think many hunters underestimate how far 45+ yards really is.

 

I bought a box of them when they first came out. I really didn't expect too much from them, but I was surprised at how relatively well they performed. I normally shoot #2 round steel at 1400fps +/- 50fps. The box of BC I bought was #3s at 1500 or whatever. They did not pattern as well, percentage wise, as my normal load, but the pattern numbers and penetration numbers were similar at longer ranges. However, when the range of the shot was relatively close, say 25 yards or less, the BCs tended to be way too tight for my tastes. From about 30 to 50 yards, they pretty much matched up well with my normal loads. Beyond 50, they were again, not quite as good. At this point, I should mention that the load that I was testing them against was the Winchester Supreme Dryloks. The price point was about the same, so there wasn't much of a loss, financially speaking. I've since gone to shooting Federal Speed Shok and have not noticed any appreciable degradation in performance when compared to the Supremes.

The bottom line is, save your money and stick with standard round steel at modest (1400fps) velocity.

Frank

 

I will be picking up a box of the top 5 brands and will pattern each one to see which is most effective.

 

Save your money, get Federal Speed Shok #2 at 1400 fps in 1 1/4 oz. and call it a day. It's a legit 45 yard DRT mallard load with that choke.

 

...

I have no idea what it patterns like out at 45 yards but I think many hunters underestimate how far 45+ yards really is.

^True dat. If a person is shooting over decoys, 45 yards is loooonnnggg shot. 135 feet. You might want to take a decoy with you when you pattern your gun. Set that decoy or a duck sized shoe box next to your pattern board and just look at it a while from 40 yards or 45 yards.

Bigger steel pellets will usually pattern tighter than smaller steel pellets. If I was pass shooting ducks at a consistent 45 yards I would probably use tungsten or #1 or #BB steel. The thing with bigger pellets is you will lose pattern density.

 

As to the OP's question on BC my answer is NO. Like Frank suggested get some quality 1400fps #2 steel loads (Kent, Winchester, Federal, whatever you choose), pattern them to see which is best in your gun/choke and go from there. You'll save money and wind up with as many if not more birds then with the gimmick loads.

On the topic of yardage- we've started taking a range finder along and will set a single decoy 40 yards from the boat or blind as a guide for how close the birds are. If they are inside the deek they are fair game...outside that it is up to the shooter to decide just how good they are.

 

we've started taking a range finder along and will set a single decoy 40 yards from the boat or blind as a guide for how close the birds are. If they are inside the deek they are fair game...

I've heard more than one guy say something like that.
My question: if a flock of ducks is 30 yards in the air, how can you tell if they are 5 yards inside or 5 yards outside the decoy???
Myself, when birds are coming in or even coming by, I have a hard time shifting my eyes to look at decoys.

 

I've heard more than one guy say something like that.
My question: if a flock of ducks is 30 yards in the air, how can you tell if they are 5 yards inside or 5 yards outside the decoy???
Myself, when birds are coming in or even coming by, I have a hard time shifting my eyes to look at decoys.

I do this myself. The simple answer is that if the ducks were 30 yards up, they would not be in range of steel shot. If they were close enough, the angle you would be shooting would be extreme. Shooting upwards that steep is very tough. In an ideal world, which we definitely are not in, the ducks lock up, and they will be low enough to gauge distance. For the most part, ducks that do this, you don't need to worry about. It's the ducks that skirt decoys that this trick is needed. I especially get this with divers, but any duck in open water does this. When a duck is only 10' up, and you can see he is inside your far decoy, a crossing shot is one I'll take every time. I kill more ducks crossing but checking the decoys than any other way.

 

they shot dirty in my opinion

 

I will have to agree with you on that, extremely dirty in my opinion in their bb load, this past weekend we hunted in the rain so my grandfather gave me his gun to give it a good cleaning, got it clean as new, hunted this morning shot max 10 shot, check it after the hunt looked like he shot a couple boxes through it, I’m not saying there bad shells just dirty

 

Here are some more of my pattern numbers to give you an idea of how they performed against several other loads through my factory flush Rem-chkes.

Patterning results from a 12-gauge 3" Remington 870 Special Purpose with a 28" barrel and factory flush Rem-chokes (pattern average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, in-shell pellet count average of five, and true choke constriction from bore gauge).

40 YARDS Mod. (.018" const.)
Federal Speed-Shok 3" 1 1/4 oz #2 steel (154 pellets) pattern 115 (75%)
Federal Black Cloud 3" 1 1/4 oz #2 steel (144 pellets) pattern 92 (64%)
Kent Fasteel 3" 1 1/4 oz #2 steel (155 pellets) pattern 103 (66%)
Remington Sportsman Hi-Speed 3" 1 1/4 oz #2 steel (152 pellets) pattern 110 (72%)
Winchester Xpert Hi-Velocity 3" 1 1/4 oz #2 steel (146 pellets) pattern 106 (73%)
Winchester Elite Blind Side 3" 1 3/8 oz #2 steel (176 pellets) pattern 104 (59%)

Good luck.

 

Is black cloud worth the money?

No.

Randy is right. I my self feel you get what you pay for to a point. Any Pellet not round is a loser. Buy Remington Nitro Steel or Winchester Drylok the couple dollars more is well spent over Remington Sportsman Steel or Winchester Expert.
Good Hunting.

 

we've started taking a range finder along and will set a single decoy 40 yards from the boat or blind as a guide for how close the birds are. If they are inside the deek they are fair game...

I've heard more than one guy say something like that.
My question: if a flock of ducks is 30 yards in the air, how can you tell if they are 5 yards inside or 5 yards outside the decoy???
Myself, when birds are coming in or even coming by, I have a hard time shifting my eyes to look at decoys.

If you have a mallard 30 yards high above your mallard decoy that is 40 yards from the blind, then that mallard would be 50 yards away from you. Most people would be able to see that the flying duck looks smaller than the decoy. I guess it doesn't work for everybody. The 40 yard decoy gives a perspective of what a 40 yard duck might look like.

 

If you have a mallard 30 yards high above your mallard decoy that is 40 yards from the blind, then that mallard would be 50 yards away from you.

That's sorta' my point: a marker decoy is pretty useless for establishing distance to the bird unless said bird is right on the water and right over the decoy.


The poster specifically said, "if the ducks are inside the decoy, then they are in range" He didn't say "if the ducks are the same size as the decoy, then they are in range".

 

Buy Remington Nitro Steel or Winchester Drylok the couple dollars more is well spent over Remington Sportsman Steel or Winchester Expert.
Good Hunting.

Don't put the shot found in Sportsman shells in the same category as the shot found in Xpert.
Xperts have notoriously misshapen shot. The shot in Sportsman shells are perfectly round.
I've removed shot from both shells. :wink:

 

Buy Remington Nitro Steel or Winchester Drylok the couple dollars more is well spent over Remington Sportsman Steel or Winchester Expert.
Good Hunting.

Don't put the shot found in Sportsman shells in the same category as the shot found in Xpert.
Xperts have notoriously misshapen shot. The shot in Sportsman shells are perfectly round.
I've removed shot from both shells. :wink:

True, the plant that makes most Remington shotshells is 25 miles from my home. Been on the tour and shoot skeet there. Lab is there as well called TheRock. The Nitro shot is plated, the Sportsman is not last time I checked. They are good bullets. The last case I bought locally was $89 plus tax for 3" 12 gauge.

 

True, the plant that makes most Remington shotshells is 25 miles from my home. Been on the tour and shoot skeet there. Lab is there as well called TheRock. The Nitro shot is plated, the Sportsman is not last time I checked. They are good bullets. The last case I bought locally was $89 plus tax for 3" 12 gauge.

$8.90 a box? Lately? I want some.

 

Buy Remington Nitro Steel or Winchester Drylok the couple dollars more is well spent over Remington Sportsman Steel or Winchester Expert.
Good Hunting.

Don't put the shot found in Sportsman shells in the same category as the shot found in Xpert.
Xperts have notoriously misshapen shot. The shot in Sportsman shells are perfectly round.
I've removed shot from both shells. :wink:

True, the plant that makes most Remington shotshells is 25 miles from my home. Been on the tour and shoot skeet there. Lab is there as well called TheRock. The Nitro shot is plated, the Sportsman is not last time I checked. They are good bullets. The last case I bought locally was $89 plus tax for 3" 12 gauge.

I feel the plating is worth it for corrosion protection when Duck hunting since my shell are always getting wet. I will tell you cleaning a Duck the Steel Shot looks new even after going through bird.

 

I feel the plating is worth it for corrosion protection when Duck hunting since my shell are always getting wet.

Not to worry. The Sportsman shells are sealed at both ends. :wink:

 

Not paying $7 more a box to have purty shot fall out of a dead duck.

 

Not paying $7 more a box to have purty shot fall out of a dead duck.

Now that right there is funny! Practical and true, but funny.

Frank

 

I patterned BC out of my 835 Mossberg and found it did somewhat as claimed and put and put a few more pellets in the outer 4.5 inch ring I use in a pattern sheet. It actually patterned better than the Winchester Drylocks I had (put a few more pellets in the 30" circle) but at 50 yards the round pellets patterned better and put more pellets in the 30" circle. As to being "worth it" first one has to buy them and try them and see how they pattern. I appreciate Joe Hunter's work but have gotten slightly different results than his in a different gun. As to WW Experts. I work in QC and tend to shy away from the bargain stuff because it also tend to lack consistancy. One batch might pattern more openly and another may have better components and do better depending on the need to fill orders.
Two products that I think are worth it are the Federal BC "scatter" loads and Blindside. They are a speciality item that work nicely over decoys at closer range. The Blindside out of my 3" 20 pattern beautifully out of my IC choke and I carry them for grouse when jump shooting wood ducks. Don't think I have seen lead pattern that evenly. Also work in some wooded potholes where shtos are off the barrel. Not all shells are "better" because they work at longer range. But if you want longer range then use the Federal Blue box stuff, or the basic Remington plated shot like others have recommended.

DP

 

Old topic... They work the same as any other steel load. If its the best patterning shell for your gun, its worth the price. Not going to do anything more than any other steel load will do, makes a heck of a hole in the birds though

 

About Blackcloud, like any ammo, it really depends. It is quality ammo, I've never heard anyone complain about any problems with it. The hulls are great to reload. The flitecontrol wad with Blackcloud can be very good, but there have been variations of it over time. One guy who found horrible patterns with it in 2015, might find it works great now in 2022 with a different wad style. I really don't know why Federal ever chose to use those dumb flite stopper shot. They should have gone to all regular shot a long time ago.

Now that said, 45 yards is asking a lot of steel shot. You really do have to put in the homework at the patterning board, and making sure you have the ideal shot size. #4 steel is fine on most ducks at close range, but it will not penetrate to the vitals on bigger ducks like mallards outside of 40 yards. It can still get them in the head, but that's a poor choice to count on that in my opinion. Now for smaller ducks like teal #4 might be ideal. You can try #2 steel, but I never could get tight enough patterns for it to be effective beyond 40 yards. Tom Roster recommends 85-90 pellets in a 30" circle as a maximum range on large ducks, 115-120 for medium, and 135-140 for small ducks. There's only about 156 pellets with 1 1/4 oz of #2 steel. Such a load could work on the largest ducks. I personally shoot for 125 pellets as a good overall choice.

Based on my testing, 1 1/4 oz of #3 steel is a great overall load for a 3" hull, but you really have to make sure to find the one that patterns well enough if you are going to try for 45 yard shots. Going for a 3 1/2", and going for that 1 3/8 or 1 1/2 oz load offers a little easier route. You could even try #2 shot there if you are mostly shooting big ducks.

Chokes is an area I don't want to get into. I have no idea what a mid range choke means, it's just marketing. Don't be afraid to try a full choke, although I'm not saying it will always be the best.

 

NO not at all !!!

 

No, order Boss works as well and less costly.