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I don't "pattern", I "x-ray".

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A "patterning board" can give you an "idea" of what your shotgun is doing, but an x-ray can tell you EXACTLY what the pellets have done.

This is birds taken in one season limit.
Shotgun was a Rem 870 12 gauge with an aftermarket "X-FULL" choke tube.
Ammo was Win 1 1/8 oz #8's @ 1250fps (advertised)
All three were one shot kills.

Nearly everyone here has a pet and/or knows a vet. Even if you have to cough up money for an office visit, it's worth it!
 
I have shot different shellls that were pure murder on birds and then shot some at pattern boards and wonder how it killed anything, but it was lights out in real use. If i had patterned them would have never stuck another one in my gun. I used to spends hours at pattern boards. Now as long as birds are falling and clays breaking , I just shoot.
Because it's the three dimensional "cloud" of pellets that interact with the moving object, not a two dimensional pattern.
 
I have learned over the years that patterning shotgun loads on paper does have value, and when combined with the understanding of the dynamics of shotgun barrels and shot, it will improve shooting hits and scores. A load that provides excellent (uniform) shot distribution within a 30" circle out of shotgun x, may not be true for another shotgun. Lead shot hardness (more tin) will reduce shot deformation and improve uniform distribution. A 12-ga will typically produce more uniform patterns than a 20-ga. with say 1-ou. lead loads because the larger barrel diameter will deform less pellets.
I agree that shooting targets on the water can also be beneficial, however to disregard the value of paper patterning is nonsense. You can do a lot to improve patterns using different combinations of components when reloading using the choke tubes you already have before buying expensive custom tubes.
 
I have learned over the years that patterning shotgun loads on paper does have value, and when combined with the understanding of the dynamics of shotgun barrels and shot, it will improve shooting hits and scores. A load that provides excellent (uniform) shot distribution within a 30" circle out of shotgun x, may not be true for another shotgun. Lead shot hardness (more tin) will reduce shot deformation and improve uniform distribution. A 12-ga will typically produce more uniform patterns than a 20-ga. with say 1-ou. lead loads because the larger barrel diameter will deform less pellets.
I agree that shooting targets on the water can also be beneficial, however to disregard the value of paper patterning is nonsense. You can do a lot to improve patterns using different combinations of components when reloading using the choke tubes you already have before buying expensive custom tubes.
'Beneficial' can be, is, best tied to the individual....reducing benefits to data, figures or mathematical realities, to me, reduces a scattergun to a level of predictable boredom....God forbid that ever extends to birddogs...any more than it already does.☹
 
'Beneficial' can be, is, best tied to the individual....reducing benefits to data, figures or mathematical realities, to me, reduces a scattergun to a level of predictable boredom....God forbid that ever extends to birddogs...any more than it already does.☹
Agree, data analysis is not desired by most people, but I enjoy using it, especially on various reloading combinations. I like knowing that when I miss a make-able shot, I have nothing to blame but myself.
 
He's right on most things he said for hunting purposes. The confusing part is where he seems to allude that a 2D paper target is different from a 3D bird but reality is, at any sort of hunting distances, birds will be 2D for all intents and purposes. However, his advice on shooting decoys is good as it will be the right size and distance, just not elevation of course.
Patterning will only tell you point of impact Vs Point of aim and whether the choke tube is really "Choking" correctly :). Any professional fitter can tell you if the shotgun fits you or not by looking at you when you point the shotgun at them (the only time you should point it at somebody)-I had a pro tell me I was a little to the right and high on my Stoeger M3500. I changed the shims and I was dead on for clay pigeons-didn't bother "patterning".
I have no idea if this helps with competition or any other purpose besides hunting..
 
I did not pattern my Huglu 28g O/U until I found it did not have very good killing success on grouse. After patterning with various loads, no matter what load or choke tried it consistently blows a hole in the centre of the pattern. Tried after market extended choke tubes, marginal improvement. Point of impact was good but poor pattern performance. Not sure if it’s due to the fact that this particular gun has 3 inch chambers and or poor forcing cone taper but my 20g is still my go to grouse gun.
 
Agree, data analysis is not desired by most people, but I enjoy using it, especially on various reloading combinations. I like knowing that when I miss a make-able shot, I have nothing to blame but myself.
Confidence with birds and shotguns can result even from the poorest of theories....and thankfully so....tho the idea may give some folks the staggering jitters.😀
Confidence is a good thing on a real world level...however obtained.
Good luck to all in discovering their own luck.
 
The only gun I have carefully patterned is my turkey gun. I patterned at 5 distances using 6 brands of ammunition and both 3 inch and 3 1/2 shells. I hunt with the one that gave me the best results. For clay sports, I can tell where I'm shooting by how the birds break. Since I use off the shelf loads and change brands often, patterning is a waste of time for me. I am amused by people who go nuts over it. If your gun fits and you have the right choke, clay should fall.
 
I would make one exception to my contention that the way shot distributes in a 30" circle is worthless and that is for turkey hunters. They are shooting at a stationary target (head/neck) and need a choke that will put as many pellets in the circle as possible. Other than that, the moving target through a cloud of pellets is what gets it done. I remember a podcast with George Digweed when he was at Perazzi and they were "patterning" his gun. He made the comment that he knew what they were doing but could care less what the pattern looked like! :ROFLMAO:
 
You make the point why at least initial patterning is important, especially for a gun or barrel that has never been patterned. As many on this site have posted, fit and weight are equally important. Your 28-ga. may be too light for you, hence you are not swinging through enough.
 
Well I have had a shotgun that shot high and to the left. A TriStar shotgun. Had I not used a pattern board I would have had to just guess as the why I was missing.
Most everybody has agreed that checking or determining the POI using a patterning board is valuable but that's not the same thing as shooting patterns to determine the pattern of a choke/load combo.
 
One last post on this subject before beating a dead horse that should lend credence to patterning. Just before a chukar hunt in the Steens mountains of eastern Oregon, I set out to find the best load for my O/U at 35-yards. For a shell load, I settled on 1 1/8ou. of #6 hard lead shot over 19 grains of clays powder. Surprising, the shot distribution was so good with skeet-chokes in both barrels, that it what I used. It was my best chukar trip ever, and I have had many. On one day, I had 3 doubles and 11 birds (my partner was a poor shot), all in flight. Incidentally, we had no dog on that trip, just a lot of walking. Many upland bird hunters are still over-choked, especially when a quick shot at close range is needed.
 
Ok stick with me for a second :). Lets put up a 8 foot x 8 foot piece of paper way to big i know. Now lets draw or place a duck flying or a setting duck on water or just a dot in the center. Lets go to 30 yards and drive a stake in the ground. We set are huge pattering board on the stake and shoot it. If are goal is lets say a good even pattern thats 50/50 of where we aimed or if you would rather point and we shoot 3 shells. We get that good even pattern thats 50/50 and true to are POI perfect. Were going to have shot below the duck above the duck and on either side depending on are choke.

Now we walk out to that pattern board and lay it down with the duck lined up with are 30 yard stake. Are we not seeing what we would see on the water? Do you think your seeing the shot string or just simply seeing the higher pattern shooting a little farther and the lower pattern shooting a little closer see what i'm saying. Lets go one more step and cut are duck off the paper and fold it up at 90 deg. :).

I'll keep pattering my guns on paper looking for POA and POI being the same and nice even coverage.
 
Discussion starter · #80 ·
Because it's the three dimensional "cloud" of pellets that interact with the moving object, not a two dimensional pattern.
All pellets arrive at 40 yards in thirteen thousands of a second, that's very close to a two dimensional situation since no bird can move much in so short a period of time.
 
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