Wow, never heard of it and couldn't find it in any of my old catalogs :? Looks like a Keltec and a PPsh-41 had a love child :lol:

 

Looks like a Keltec and a PPsh-41 had a love child :lol:

ROTFLMAO.

That's EXACTLY what it looks like! :lol:

.

 

thats an interesting looking firearm, to say the least.

 

It looks more like part of my car jack than like a shotgun. Maybe it's dual purpose?

 

Still looking

 

I have the Dec 79 Gun's article now, writen by John Winter and one other referance. Still looking.

 

It seems that Mr. Evan Marshall was referring to the SWATriplex-18 (rather than the Truvelo NS-2000 "NeoStead") when he wrote on 20 Oct 2002, "South African although I'm not sure of the name - Neostadt? It would only work with 2 & 3/4" 00 buck shot. I tried it with slugs and it wasn't reliable. I shot it at Norfolk Naval Base when I worked for Ruger." http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=950

Desert01, perhaps you could interview Mr. Evan Marshall, formerly with Ruger, concerning which year he tested the SWATriplex-18, and who at the Norfolk Naval Base last had custody of that prototype shotgun?

This Russian review of the SWATriplex-18 thought that an 18-round, double-magazine shotgun "may well be in demand today: the design could be very close to the ideal in terms of combining in one system: high firepower; mechanical reliability; compactness; and a high ammunition capacity. Such weapons could be a good choice for both civil police and sport shooting." (Near bottom of this page:
http://translate.google.com/transla...WATriplex&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&rlz=1I7IRFA_en&sa=N&start=20)

 

I dig it. It looks a lot like many HD conversions seen here.

 

Desert01, if you wish to investigate further, there is a possibility that the inventor of the SWATriplex-18 was one of the following:

Name: John W. Winter
SSN: 459-50-XXXX
Last Residence: 78209 San Antonio, Bexar, Texas, USA
Born: 24 Aug 1906 Died: 15 Nov 1997
State (Year) SSN issued: Texas (Before 1951)

Name: John W. Winter
SSN: 273-20-XXXX
Last Residence: 44077 Painesville, Lake, Ohio, USA
Born: 28 Jun 1909 Died: 4 Nov 2003
State (Year) SSN issued: Ohio (Before 1951)

Name: John W. Winter
SSN: 416-12-XXXX
Last Residence: 36606 Mobile, Mobile, Alabama, USA
Born: 11 Nov 1918 Died: 9 Dec 1992
State (Year) SSN issued: Alabama (Before 1951)

Name: John W. Winter
SSN: 448-14-XXXX
Last Residence: 67901 Liberal, Seward, Kansas, USA
Born: 16 Nov 1920 Died: 13 Feb 1997
State (Year) SSN issued: Oklahoma (Before 1951)

Name: John W. Winter
SSN: 286-18-XXXX
Last Residence: 45385 Xenia, Greene, Ohio
Born: 10 Oct 1921 Died: 30 Jan 2008
State (Year) SSN issued: Ohio (Before 1951)

Name: John W. Winter
SSN: 363-20-XXXX
Born: 24 Nov 1924 Died: 23 Nov 1986
State (Year) SSN issued: Michigan (Before 1951)

Name: John W. Winter
SSN: 537-20-XXXX
Last Residence: 97034 Lake Oswego, Clackamas, Oregon, USA
Born: 28 Apr 1929 Died: 14 Sep 1996
State (Year) SSN issued: Washington (Before 1951)

Name: John W. Winter
SSN: 567-25-XXXX
Last Residence: 96813 Honolulu, Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
Born: 4 Mar 1958 Died: 14 Oct 2001
State (Year) SSN issued: California (1973)

Name: John W. Winter III
SSN: 464-09-XXXX
Last Residence: 76107 Fort Worth, Tarrant, Texas, USA
Born: 21 Feb 1915 Died: 7 Feb 2002
State (Year) SSN issued: Texas (Before 1951)

 

The timing and location would have been right for him to be disussing the Neostead, not the Triplex.

Thanks

 

Desert01, I examined your posts on other forums, particularly http://www.ak47.net/lite/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=263896. I tried to determine if any of the SWATriplex-18 shotguns have survived. Does that SWATriplex-18 in Norway still exist, Desert01?

Apparently five of the SWATriplex-18's were imported into the U.S.A. in the late 1970's or early 1980's. You have corresponded with two of the importers who had considered a partnership. Did you learn the year of importation to the U.S.A., Desert01?

Some of the five, or possibly all five, were eventually taken into the possession of the BATF, as non-sporting weapons, not eligible for import. Did you learn the year that the SWATriplex-18's were "donated" to the BATF, Desert01?

I have corresponded several times this weekend with Mr. Evan P. Marshall, site administrator of http://www.stoppingpower.net. On 20 Oct 2002 a thread asked, "Does anyone remember who made the SWATriplex-18?" Mr. Marshall answered, "South African though I'm not sure of the name - Neostadt? Would only work with 2 3/4" 00 buck shot. I tried it with slugs and it wasn't reliable. I shot it at Norfolk Naval Base when I worked for Ruger." http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=950

After several correspondences, Mr. Marshall and I determined that it was indeed the SWATriplex-18 shotgun (and not the Truvelo NeoStead-2000 shotgun) that he tested at Norfolk Naval Base in 1989-1991 when he worked for Ruger. The Truvelo NeoStead-2000 was first produced in 2000-2001. It was partially modeled after the SWATriplex-18.

It was apparently one of the five SWATriplex-18's that were imported to the U.S.A. that Mr. Marshall held in his hands and it had survived destruction until at least 1989-1991. Moreover, Mr. Marshall personally verified that the SWATriplex-18 was not reliable with slugs. That also was a clue, because the NeoStead-2000 is reliable with all 2.75" shells.

Mr. Marshall reported that about 1989-1991 while he worked at Ruger, there was a large demonstration of a variety of firearms manufacturers at Norfolk Naval Base, but he added, "I can no longer recall why we were using that facility." I was unclear who Mr. Marshall meant by "we," but he also "worked for the National Nuclear Security Administration's Office of Secure Transportation, training the Federal agents who transport nukes, for 5½ years."

Production of the SWATriplex-18 apparently ceased in the early 1980's from the poor health and financial problems of its inventor, Mr. John W. Winter. Do you have any information suggesting that Mr. Winter was unlikely to have still been personally promoting the SWATriplex-18 in 1989-1991, Desert01? When did Mr. Winter die, Desert01, and was he a South African citizen? If so, I will delete the list in the above post of deceased Americans who were named John W. Winter.

If not Mr. Winter, himself, then of course I cannot determine who at the Norfolk Naval Base had custody of the SWATriplex-18 shotgun that Mr. Marshall shot.

Because that firearms demonstration about 1989-1991 was at the Norfolk Naval Base, I had considered that perhaps those manufacturers were demonstrating their firearms for the Department of the Navy, or for the Navy SEALs at Virginia Beach, Virginia, but possibly it was for the National Nuclear Security Administration's Office of Secure Transportation.

It would be important to learn if the five imported SWATriplex-18's were "donated" to the BATF before 1989-1991, Desert01, because that might indicate that our military still had a small curiousity at that time about this shotgun.

 

wfb18,

The weapon in Norway you are refering to is a Neostead. I have the import data in my files (5 were imported), and also understand that Neostead's were brought to the the demo by Hans Stead and then returned to SA.

Does anyone remember who made this thing? It was an 18 shot 12 gauge with two 9 rnd. mags above and parallel to the bore. Had a ventilated bbl. cover. Looked like a SW 76 SMG on steroids.

The stopping power description is of the Neostead and not the Triplex. The Triplex's mag tubes are below the barrel.

The little data I have on the SWATRIPLEX is that Mr. Winters is/was an American and developed the design in the U.S.. Said design does not seem to have gone beyound the prototype stage. Based on the dates I would expect it to only have been designed for 2 3/4" shells.

Development of the SWATriplex-18 apparently ceased in the early 1980's from the poor health and financial problems of its inventor, Mr. John W. Winter.

This seems to be the main cause of the demise of the SWATRIPLEX from the data availible so far. Mr. Marshell may well have fired one of the few prototypes produced in 89, but it seems unlikely. Most likely he is remembering one of the other weapons involved in the CAWS program:

The CAWS program started in the early 1980s in the United States. The main goal of this program was to develop a new generation personal firearm, capable of firing high-impulse, multiple projectiles with effective range of 100-150 meters. Using multiple projectiles should increase the chances of hitting the target in combat. Although tested by the U.S. military, the CAWS was canceled, and production, both military and civilian, has halted.

Smith & Wesson and a few other firms were participating in the CAWS program until it was canceled. HK's sample was the most well known, but the Pancor Jackhammer can also be referanced.
http://securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1800/1864.htm

One of the teams entered in the CAWS race was Heckler & Koch Germany, coupled with Winchester Corp. USA. Heckler & Koch was responsible for developing a weapon, while Winchester was responsible for the development of new types of ammunition. Although tested by the U.S. military, the CAWS was canceled, and production, both military and civilian, has halted

.

The Pancor Corporation Jackhammer is a 12-gauge, gas-operated automatic shotgun. It is one of very few fully automatic shotguns, and although patented in 1987, it never entered full-scale production. Only a few working prototypes of the Jackhammer were ever built; some sources state that only two fully automatic prototypes exist.

Some interesting history on the Pacncor, and likely a good lead on what happened to the Triplex.
http://www.moviegunservices.com/mgs_pancor.htm

Smith & Wesson AS-3 Assault Shotgun

The AS-3 is a shotgun constructed more like an assault rifle, with rifle sights, straight-line configuration, box ammunition feed, and a muzzle brake (something which took a lot of research, since most muzzle brakes are destroyed by buckshot or flechette ammunition). Like other CAWS competitors, the AS-3 was dropped when the CAWS program was terminated.

Most likely the AA-12 is the only weapon of the type, time frame that is still looking to fill the CAWS "void". Hummm is the SRM ever going to hit production? I saw them at Shot last year and they are interesting.

Thanks for the research though, I have a few more things to look into.

 

Desert01, I would like to keep researching about Mr. John W. Winter. Mr. Winter was an inventor who managed to get several innovations working on his shotgun, yet he seems to have died in poor health, under-financed and under-appreciated. Are you able to post the text of the three articles about Mr. John W. Winter and his SWATriplex-18 in the May/June 1979 issue of "American Handgunner," and the October 1979 and the December 1979 issues of "Guns" magazine? Or you could p.m. those texts to me, or you could mail me photocopies, if you want? Thanks for the information that Mr. Winter was an American and that the SWATriplex-18 was an American-made prototype shotgun.

Desert01, thank you also for correcting me that five NeoStead-2000's were imported to the U.S.A. and later "donated" to the BATF as non-sporting weapons, not eligible for import. I incorrectly stated that five SWATriplex-18's were imported, because I misunderstood the importer's reply to your other thread (http://www.ak47.net/lite/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=263896).

The little data I have on the SWATRIPLEX is that Mr. Winter is/was an American and developed the design in the U.S.. Said design does not seem to have gone beyond the prototype stage. ...Mr. Marshall may well have fired one of the few prototypes [(edited) about 1989-1991], but it seems unlikely. Most likely he is remembering one of the other weapons involved in the CAWS program...

The OP on StoppingPower.net titled his thread "Swatriplex 18." http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=950 That OP then asked, "Does anyone remember who made this thing? It was an 18 shot 12 gauge with two 9 rnd. mags above and parallel to the bore. Had a ventilated bbl. cover. Looked like a SW 76 SMG on steroids." So the OP really meant to ask, "Does anyone remember who made the SWATriplex-18?" Mr. Marshall began his answer, "South African though I'm not sure of the name - Neostadt?" I think that Mr. Marshall was trying to offer the name of who made the SWATriplex-18 as "Neostadt," not the name of the shotgun. I think that both the OP and Mr. Marshall were a little fuzzy on the facts. The OP remembered correctly that the SWATriplex-18 held 18 rounds (the NeoStead-2000 holds 12), but the OP forgot that its two magazine tubes were below the barrel. And Mr. Marshall was not sure concerning the name of who made the SWATriplex-18. But Mr. Marshall definitely knew that he was writing about a double tube magazine shotgun that he had tested about 1989-1991, and that was ten years before the NeoStead-2000's were first produced. A second clue that the double tube magazine shotgun was the SWATriplex-18 is Mr. Marshall's conclusion that it was reliable with 2.75" 00 buckshot but it was not reliable with slugs. Of course, the NeoStead-2000 is reliable with all 2.75" shells.

Mr. Marshall is a very busy man. He had difficulty recalling details about this, but he very kindly and very briefly answered several e-mails. Although this may be unresolvable, I really appreciated his help, and I assume that Mr. Marshall did test fire a SWATriplex-18 about 1989-1991.

Unfortunately, if this assumption is correct, we do not definitely know why that SWATriplex-18 was at Norfolk Naval Base, nor for whom were those firearms demonstrated, nor what happened to that SWATriplex-18 afterward. Also, it was a large demonstration of a variety of firearms manufacturers at Norfolk Naval Base, and that does not seem like the CAWS project.

If the SWATriplex-18 was in fact American-made, I cannot think of any reason why the BATF could take it/them, assuming that Mr. Winter submitted his paperwork. Desert01, did you mean that one might be in the BATF Tech branch, as a curio and relic firearm?

Good luck with your research, Desert01.

 

btt

 

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Still looking guys

 

if he patend the shotgun and no one owns th rights you might try and get the blueprints from thier records