Not an issue, OK to shoot.
If you happen to weigh a powder charge with a lead pellet or two, you will panic. Not that I have every had that happen.

 

While weighing drops, you likely put the shot in the wrong bottle.

 

The only bad aspect of shot in your lead drop is that it occupies space that could be powder. If there is too much shot instead of powder then the performance of the load may suffer. It should not be unsafe unless it is so degraded that the wad does not clear the barrel. It will not cause excess pressure or such.

 

Thank you chaps I really appreciate your advice.
As I said im pretty new to reloading and the small problems probably seem like big ones lol

 

Is the lead going to get melted, though?

 

Is the lead going to get melted, though?

It would take more than a few milliseconds to generate enough heat to significantly melt the lead.

 

Then why are copper or aluminum gas checks used on some lead bullets? I've read that ablation can be a source of leading in handguns and rifles.

 

to stop gas cutting gas checks are more to stop higher pressure loads from leaking gas past the boolit base
I think to there is a fair bit more resistance for lead boolits to travel down in a rifled barrel compared to a smooth bore

 

Then why are copper or aluminum gas checks used on some lead bullets? I've read that ablation can be a source of leading in handguns and rifles.

Completely different set of circumstances. Totally different pressure ranges. 10,000 PSI on shot shells, and 40,000 and above on rifle ammo.

A small amount of shot in the powder of a shotshell will never be noticed, and will have no particular consequence in it's performance.

DLM

 

It's not pressure that melts lead, it's temperature.

Shotguns and handguns use a lot of the same powders.

 

It's not pressure that melts lead, it's temperature.

Shotguns and handguns use a lot of the same powders.

Oh Hell!! The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!!! GEESH!!

JUST AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.....

 

The shot is free in the powder charge not being crushed into rifling. The exposure to the flame front is not as intensive or prolonged. What little lead that is ablated will be next to nothing. More lead oxide in the primer than will be released from the shot.

 

Even if the small amount of led did melt it would still be safe.
You can run a slug load through a shotgun the amount of melted lead aint gunna be anywhere near the diameter of the bore GEESH!!!!!
Somtimes we get too technical on here.

 

It's not pressure that melts lead, it's temperature.

Shotguns and handguns use a lot of the same powders.

No..... actually it's temperature AND TIME.

Exposure to 600*F will melt lead.
The number of milliseconds that a bullet travels down a gun barrel isn't enough time for 4,000*F powder gas to melt it.

Gas checks stop gas cutting/blowby up the side of imperfectly sealed (to the bore) cast bullets.

 

I never said anything about it being unsafe. I have no safety concerns about it whatsoever.

If given a choice, I would prefer NOT to have to clean lead, no matter how it got there, out of a shotgun barrel--THAT'S what I was getting at.

 

It's not pressure that melts lead, it's temperature.

Shotguns and handguns use a lot of the same powders.

No..... actually it's temperature AND TIME.

Exposure to 600*F will melt lead.
The number of milliseconds that a bullet travels down a gun barrel isn't enough time for 4,000*F powder gas to melt it.

Gas checks stop gas cutting/blowby up the side of imperfectly sealed (to the bore) cast bullets.

Yes, it is temperature and time. Tell me, which spends more time in the barrel--a 240 grain 1200 fps bullet in a 6 inch revolver barrel or a filled shot cup at 1200 fps in a 30 inch shotgun barrel?

 

My only concern would be does it actually clear the barrel? Snice it is below the wad it would seem that the shot is loose with equal pressure all around it. What makes it go out the barrel?

 

My only concern would be does it actually clear the barrel? Snice it is below the wad it would seem that the shot is loose with equal pressure all around it. What makes it go out the barrel?

Pretty much nothing.

IMO I would be mildly concerned shooting them in a self-shucker or a pump.

In a break-action,, gravity will cover it.

 

The shot is most likely going to be pushed into the base of the wad during the detonation, and upon ejection will remain in the hull until its ejection from the breach. Worst case scenario is a loose pellet in the action binding up the lifter or trigger group which would require a hard shaking or a teardown.

 

The shot is most likely going to be pushed into the base of the wad during the detonation, and upon ejection will remain in the hull until its ejection from the breach. Worst case scenario is a loose pellet in the action binding up the lifter or trigger group which would require a hard shaking or a teardown.

No way. A shot shell is a pressure vessel. With equal pressure on all sides and the pressure is released everything loose in the vessel will move to the lower pressure release. The shot will go out.

 

The shot is most likely going to be pushed into the base of the wad during the detonation, and upon ejection will remain in the hull until its ejection from the breach. Worst case scenario is a loose pellet in the action binding up the lifter or trigger group which would require a hard shaking or a teardown.

No way. A shot shell is a pressure vessel. With equal pressure on all sides and the pressure is released everything loose in the vessel will move to the lower pressure release. The shot will go out.

I have my doubts on that.

Any shot ahead of the gas seal will go out, obviously, but, shot intermingled with the gunpowder is completely surrounded on all sides by pressure, which will make the intermingled shot attempt to stay right where it is. The Law of Conservation Of Momentum.

For the shot in the powder to move, it has to be pushed one direction by surrounding gas flow.
Now,,, if the shot is laying right up against the gas seal, the gas expansion MIGHT push that pellet along with the gas seal out.
If the shot is in the middle of the pile, let alone if it is down by the base, I have great doubts of it exiting.

Someone needs to test this by deliberately doctoring a few shells powder charges with a half-dozen or so small shot, fire them upwards (like 45* or greater) in an O/U (so extraction is controlled), then extract the shells muzzle UP, to see if pellets under the shot vanished or are there.

I won't have time to jack with this until maybe Monday, at the earliest.

 

Think sucked instead of pushed. I have seen it more than once with compressed gasses and liquids under pressure. Loose material migrates to the low pressure area and most often out if the material is small enough to pass through the exit orifice. In industrial applications this has caused slow flow problems in gas and liquid transfers when the material is too large to exit. This can happen with pressures much lower than the + - pressures of 10,000 psi of a shotshell. If the pressure is equal on all sides of a body no movement. Once pressure is lower on one side movement tends to that side. Think Bernoulli"s principle. Same thing happens when a ship goes down. surrounding material gets pulled down with it rather than pushed away. In rapid depressurization the push or vacuum are not steady. It happens with wave fronts and vortexes therefore the action is very complicated not a steady push or suck.

 

Again thank you for all input, very useful information thank you.

 

I shall see next week dutch.

The problem with your "migration" theory as I see it is twofold:

1- the objects you expect to 'migrate' with the combustion gasses out the muzzle have to do that migration in under 10-12 thousandths of a second. After that (roughly), gas flow stops, pressure is gone.
2- the objects you expect to 'migrate' are small in size and dense, thus very heavy for their size. The pellet may weigh way a chicken feather does and so has the same inertia, but said feather has about a million times the surface area for gas flow to have an effect on, the pellet is far harder to get to move, and again, gas pressure is all around the pellet, pushing fwd, backwards, and sideways.

Once pressure is lower on one side movement tends to that side.

One last thing............ the above is wrong.
There is not "lower-pressure" on "one side" of anything in the gun barrel behind the barrel blockage (projectile). Pressure is exerted evenly inside a gun barrel, even while the projectile is moving. At the moment the wad exists the muzzle, there is equal gas pressure on the inside of the hull in the breech as there is on the wad's gas seal.
There IS a certain amount of gas flow with expansion, and expansion is directed down the barrel, but there is never a differential in pressure between the breech and the barrel behind the gas seal.
Thus, while there is limited gas flow due to expansion down the barrel trying to "suck" the pellets amid the burned gunpowder toward the muzzle, there is NOT any 'extra pressure' behind the same pellets back at the breech, trying to "push" them toward the "lower pressure" because there is no "lower pressure" area. Any pressure "pushing" them toward the barrel is matched by pressure 'pushing' them toward the breech, and also pressure pushing them toward the sides, and angles, every other direction.

I guess we will see next week unless someone tests this sooner than I will.

 

OK,,,,,,,,,,,,, I find myself able to test this theory/dispute as to whether or not lead shotgun pellets UNDER the wad column, in the gunpowder, will stay after firing or will be blown out the muzzle when fired.

Test parameters:
I just loaded 10 rounds, 5 and 5:
Federal Gold Medal plastic hull
W209 primers
18.2ish grains of Aliant Red Dot gunpowder
CB2100-12 wads
1.0 ounces, #71/2 lead shot (Magnum)

Load taken from Reloading For Shotgunners, 4th edition. Probably the single lowest pressure load I use regularly. I did not choose it for that reason, it was simply what the Grabber's UCB was last set up for.

In 5 hulls, after the powder was dropped, the hull was removed from my Grabber 761 and SIX #7 1/2 pellets were dropped atop the powder, in no certain manner. Wad was seated, shot charge dropped, crimped, 8-point.
These 5 hulls have, in red magic marker, a large "T" written across the base, for "Top" (of powder)

In 5 hulls, after the powder was dropped, the hull was removed from my Grabber 761 the powder charge was dumped into a scale pan, and SIX #7 1/2 pellets were dropped atop the basewad, in no certain manner. Powder was funneled back in atop the shot, wad was seated, shot charge dropped, crimped, 8-point.
These 5 hulls have, in red magic marker, a large "U" written around the primer, for "Under" (the powder).

I made no effort whatsoever to 'disperse' the pellets into the powder charge.

Testing will be tomorrow, likely after I make and eat breakfast.

These will be fired in the Huglu O/U that I bought dad when I was in Incirlik in '02. Pretty gun, seldom fired, fishscale checkering, mother-of-pearl inlays, carved pictures on the stock.
I do not know what chokes are in the gun, and I am not deciding I need to look either. They are there though.
I considered using the Broadway and her 34" tubes to maximize the time powder gasses would be "flowing down the barrel".
I decided on the much shorter Huglu to maximize the barrel pressure at wad exit so as to maybe maximize the "final gas rush" after the wad clears the muzzle.

It was a coin toss really...........................

Rounds will be fired singly, upward, roughly 45* or so out over a tillage field, and breech will be opened while still muzzle up. Fired hull will then be inverted over my hand to see if any pellets are still in there. Then, the next one will be loaded and tested.

Results will be recorded and reported here, whatever they are.

Then......... I will head to the tractor pull at the state fair.