My wife has a bad shoulder, what is the lowest recoil semi-auto for sporting clays?
Digger575
The three main factors of recoil are gun weight, charge velocity, and mass.
The lighter the gun, the more recoil.
The faster the shell, the more recoil.
The bigger the payload, the more recoil.
Semi-autos take the recoil and spread it over a longer period of time thereby reducing how the recoil is felt at the shoulder. Personally, I think gas operated semi-autos are the choice for recoil sensitive shooters, others will disagree. Generally, it comes down to how the gun fits the shooter. I think which semi is less important than what you are shooting. I know several people who have had very good luck with Remington 1100's, Beretta 391s, Browning Golds, and Winchester SX2s in the recoil department.
The best thing you can do is shoot light loads. Winchester has a great load called the Winlite (http://www.winchester.com/Products/shot ... 12FL8.aspx) that I love shooting in my very light SxS. They also have some 1180fps/1oz stuff that is nice (http://www.winchester.com/Products/shot ... AL128.aspx). You're not going to find these guys on your Wal-mart shelves, but they go a long way to reducing felt recoil.
The lighter the gun, the more recoil.
The faster the shell, the more recoil.
The bigger the payload, the more recoil.
Semi-autos take the recoil and spread it over a longer period of time thereby reducing how the recoil is felt at the shoulder. Personally, I think gas operated semi-autos are the choice for recoil sensitive shooters, others will disagree. Generally, it comes down to how the gun fits the shooter. I think which semi is less important than what you are shooting. I know several people who have had very good luck with Remington 1100's, Beretta 391s, Browning Golds, and Winchester SX2s in the recoil department.
The best thing you can do is shoot light loads. Winchester has a great load called the Winlite (http://www.winchester.com/Products/shot ... 12FL8.aspx) that I love shooting in my very light SxS. They also have some 1180fps/1oz stuff that is nice (http://www.winchester.com/Products/shot ... AL128.aspx). You're not going to find these guys on your Wal-mart shelves, but they go a long way to reducing felt recoil.
I would avoid the benelli if you are worried about recoil. I know opinions differ but don't buy a benelli based on their ads, try one. I find the benelli (and UGB 25) recoil significant compare to a gas operated auto like a 391 or 1100. It is probably because the benelli system requires the gun (barrel) to move backwards against resistance (your shoulder) to unlock. The softest shooting gun I've shot is a 391 with a Bruce Ney recoil system. I've heard the new beretta A400 is very soft also.
In addition to the three things that affect recoil listed by marist89, how well
the dimensions of the stock fit the size and shape of the shooter also has
a significant affect on felt recoil.
Most guns have stock dimensions that are chosen by manufacturers to fit
an average man, 5' 10" tall and weighing 160 pounds. If you wife is not near
those figures, the gun will not fit her well and felt recoil could be increased
considerably.
For many women, the pitch on stocks doesn't match their shoulder configuration,
the comb is too far below the rib to allow chug cheek pressure, the grip is too
large to allow pulling straight back on the trigger (for good shot timing) and the stock is too long, which sometimes causes women to shoot with too much weight on their back
foot and can cause cheek slap.
For anyone, man or woman, to shoot using the correct shooting form (gun mount, stance, body/head/neck posture the gun must fit them (have stock dimensions that match their individual size and shape. One set of stock dimensions does not come close to fitting all shooters.
Also there are better/softer recoil pads available that are far better than the pads
on most new guns. I would also suggest considering a Browning "Reactor" pad in her shooting vest. They are the best I've seen partially because they conform very well
to the curvature of the shoulder pocket of both men and women.
the dimensions of the stock fit the size and shape of the shooter also has
a significant affect on felt recoil.
Most guns have stock dimensions that are chosen by manufacturers to fit
an average man, 5' 10" tall and weighing 160 pounds. If you wife is not near
those figures, the gun will not fit her well and felt recoil could be increased
considerably.
For many women, the pitch on stocks doesn't match their shoulder configuration,
the comb is too far below the rib to allow chug cheek pressure, the grip is too
large to allow pulling straight back on the trigger (for good shot timing) and the stock is too long, which sometimes causes women to shoot with too much weight on their back
foot and can cause cheek slap.
For anyone, man or woman, to shoot using the correct shooting form (gun mount, stance, body/head/neck posture the gun must fit them (have stock dimensions that match their individual size and shape. One set of stock dimensions does not come close to fitting all shooters.
Also there are better/softer recoil pads available that are far better than the pads
on most new guns. I would also suggest considering a Browning "Reactor" pad in her shooting vest. They are the best I've seen partially because they conform very well
to the curvature of the shoulder pocket of both men and women.
Although the Short Recoil system does have more recoil than a gas piston system, the recoil is much lower than a pump or over-and-under by quite a bit.High Rib 52 said:
For that reason, do try to test the guns you shortlist and don't dismiss Short Recoil. The UGB-25 in particular, is pretty awesome to hit clays with and shouldn't be thought of as a hard recoil gun.
In my recoil intolerant experience, the 1100 is the softest shooter. It is also slim and trim, although a bit heavier than the aluminum framed guns currently produced by everyone but Remington. The Maxus probably has the best grip for smaller hands. I've only put a few rounds through the Maxus. It didn't seem to be particularly soft in the recoil to the shoulder department--it only weighs 7 lbs--but the pad Browning has developed for it did do a good job of keeping recoil away from the face, which can a gun seem like a pretty soft shooter.
Dave
Dave
Heavy gas autos are the ticket. My top three for the softest shooter are:
1. Winchester Super X model One. This is a heavy weight soft shooter and perfect for clays.
2. Remington 1100 or 11/87. Another very soft shooter perfect for clays.
3. Browning Gold. Excellent soft recoil gun.
Forget about any recoil or "inertia" operated gun. They have a much sharper recoil. The three gas guns listed above give a gentle push compared to the sharp jab of the recoil or inertia guns. Great guns but for recoil, no contest.
Everyone loves the Beretta gas guns too but I have found they are generally lighter therefore they have more punch on the shoulder.
1. Winchester Super X model One. This is a heavy weight soft shooter and perfect for clays.
2. Remington 1100 or 11/87. Another very soft shooter perfect for clays.
3. Browning Gold. Excellent soft recoil gun.
Forget about any recoil or "inertia" operated gun. They have a much sharper recoil. The three gas guns listed above give a gentle push compared to the sharp jab of the recoil or inertia guns. Great guns but for recoil, no contest.
Everyone loves the Beretta gas guns too but I have found they are generally lighter therefore they have more punch on the shoulder.
Felt recoil is a complex thing.
I definitely would go back to the Browning gold and have it fitted to her and use very light loads and have her use ear muffs and ear plugs at the same time. I know that sounds crazy, but the noise can increase felt recoil.
We had thee women shooters in a clinic who were having trouble with recoil. I brought out ear muffs to go over their ear plugs and told them we were switching the shells to even lighter loads and they all shot well after that the softer noise softened the recoil.
I definitely would go back to the Browning gold and have it fitted to her and use very light loads and have her use ear muffs and ear plugs at the same time. I know that sounds crazy, but the noise can increase felt recoil.
We had thee women shooters in a clinic who were having trouble with recoil. I brought out ear muffs to go over their ear plugs and told them we were switching the shells to even lighter loads and they all shot well after that the softer noise softened the recoil.
Search the site. This question has been asked a lot. You will find that there is no generally agreed answer.
I agree with the post about the a400. It is the lightest recoiling semi-auto I have shot in 12 gauge and I have shot a lot of different ones! However, avoid the kick-off system as it is not smooth in it's operation in my opinion. Stick with 1 oz. or 1200fps 7/8 oz loads which are plenty good for almost all sporting targets.
Remember that most women will not appreciate lugging or swinging a heavy gun all day so be careful of that route as a sole solution.
The a400 cycled my 7/8 oz. and even my 3/4 oz loads right out of the box. To boot, the gun is light. Not sure how they did it but they did!
Remember that most women will not appreciate lugging or swinging a heavy gun all day so be careful of that route as a sole solution.
The a400 cycled my 7/8 oz. and even my 3/4 oz loads right out of the box. To boot, the gun is light. Not sure how they did it but they did!
Just to be clear, total recoil is IDENTICAL for all guns assuming the same load is fired in each; for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction if you remember high school physics. So the factors mentioned above do affect both actual and felt recoil.
Assuming a given load, then the actual firearm factors that affect felt recoil are only those that spread the actual recoil over a longer time (slow it down), since ultimately your shoulder absorbs all of the force generated by the load. (Stock shape and bore alignment can vector some of the recoil into upward motion as well.) Factors that spread recoil over longer time are: 1) more mass in the gun, 2) a cycling bolt, and 3) any pressure bleeds that reduce payload velocity. So whatever autoloader that is 1) heaviest, 2) has the slowest and/or longest cycling action, and 3) is gas operated will have the least felt recoil --- and right now that would probably be the Remington 1100.
Assuming a given load, then the actual firearm factors that affect felt recoil are only those that spread the actual recoil over a longer time (slow it down), since ultimately your shoulder absorbs all of the force generated by the load. (Stock shape and bore alignment can vector some of the recoil into upward motion as well.) Factors that spread recoil over longer time are: 1) more mass in the gun, 2) a cycling bolt, and 3) any pressure bleeds that reduce payload velocity. So whatever autoloader that is 1) heaviest, 2) has the slowest and/or longest cycling action, and 3) is gas operated will have the least felt recoil --- and right now that would probably be the Remington 1100.
If you want one of the very softest shooting guns out there, consider a Beretta 391 and a Soft Touch stock.
That's what I have, and it is very low recoil! My Soft Touch was installed on a Cole wood stock, but less expensive composite stocks are shown here: http://shootersemporium.net/compositestocks.php
The 391 isn't perfect by any means, and many will argue that there are better auto loaders out there (Perhaps the A400 Xcel?). To a large extent it's Blondes versus Brunettes - personal preference. Lots of quality guns out there.
The 391 is indisputably the most common autoloader seen in competitions This indicates that it is a functional, durable, and reliable choice, and that high-volume shooters migrate to that product family.
That's what I have, and it is very low recoil! My Soft Touch was installed on a Cole wood stock, but less expensive composite stocks are shown here: http://shootersemporium.net/compositestocks.php
The 391 isn't perfect by any means, and many will argue that there are better auto loaders out there (Perhaps the A400 Xcel?). To a large extent it's Blondes versus Brunettes - personal preference. Lots of quality guns out there.
The 391 is indisputably the most common autoloader seen in competitions This indicates that it is a functional, durable, and reliable choice, and that high-volume shooters migrate to that product family.
You should also consider a 20 gauge 391.
I have two 12 GA 391's and two 20 gauge (Teknys Gold Sportings), each with many thousands of rounds through them. The 20 gauges are actually more reliable than the 12's. I don't believe I've ever had a failure to feed or fire in either of my 20 gauge guns.
I replaced the stock attachment bolt and magazine cap on the 20's with Mercury Recoil adapters (they install in minutes) made by http://www.mercuryrecoil.com/suppressors/index.htm#top
The suppressors together add about a pound of weight, which brings the 20 ga approximately up to the same weight and feel as my 12 ga guns. Recoil is fantastically low.
Overall, I would say that a 20 gauge 391 is even more impressive than Beretta's 12 gauge - which is a tough act to beat!
One advantage to 20 gauge over 12 is you don't have to look for light loads - because the standard is 7/8 oz at 1200FPS. Light 20 gauge guns kick a lot, but this setup isn't light.
I have two 12 GA 391's and two 20 gauge (Teknys Gold Sportings), each with many thousands of rounds through them. The 20 gauges are actually more reliable than the 12's. I don't believe I've ever had a failure to feed or fire in either of my 20 gauge guns.
I replaced the stock attachment bolt and magazine cap on the 20's with Mercury Recoil adapters (they install in minutes) made by http://www.mercuryrecoil.com/suppressors/index.htm#top
The suppressors together add about a pound of weight, which brings the 20 ga approximately up to the same weight and feel as my 12 ga guns. Recoil is fantastically low.
Overall, I would say that a 20 gauge 391 is even more impressive than Beretta's 12 gauge - which is a tough act to beat!
One advantage to 20 gauge over 12 is you don't have to look for light loads - because the standard is 7/8 oz at 1200FPS. Light 20 gauge guns kick a lot, but this setup isn't light.
Hi Digger575:
My we suggest, instead of replacing your wife's current gun, install a SoftTouch recoil reduction on the gun she already has. The SoftTouch will remove almost all of the felt recoil and absorb the energy before it can damage her shoulder more. Recoil energy has a cumulative effect on the body and the damage grows over time with continued shooting. The SoftTouch recoil reduction system has helped a great many shooters worldwide with the same injury. In fact, we have helped a good number of shooters whose doctors would not release them to shoot again without the SoftTouch system. I wonder if you can write it off on your taxes, Schedule A as a medical device?? Please give us a call so we can discuss your wife's needs both physical and style. The SoftTouch has many options/upgrades from which to choose to personalize the system for her. We are running a special right now - $100 off the installation service.
My we suggest, instead of replacing your wife's current gun, install a SoftTouch recoil reduction on the gun she already has. The SoftTouch will remove almost all of the felt recoil and absorb the energy before it can damage her shoulder more. Recoil energy has a cumulative effect on the body and the damage grows over time with continued shooting. The SoftTouch recoil reduction system has helped a great many shooters worldwide with the same injury. In fact, we have helped a good number of shooters whose doctors would not release them to shoot again without the SoftTouch system. I wonder if you can write it off on your taxes, Schedule A as a medical device?? Please give us a call so we can discuss your wife's needs both physical and style. The SoftTouch has many options/upgrades from which to choose to personalize the system for her. We are running a special right now - $100 off the installation service.
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