One other feature I forgot to mention on the 590 A-1 Mil-Spec, is that it is equipped with dual extractors. It is all but impossible to get a shell stuck in it.

 

Ah......billt, the 500 has dual extractors too.

It is quite possible to stick a shell in these guns if it has been fired in another shotgun and reloaded for your gun without a full sizing of the brass case head. Even with dual extractors.

Voice of experience here. I've got several dual extractor Mossbergs.

 

The Mossberg 590A1 receiver is not parkerized. You cannot parkerize aluminum. I believe it's simply a matte anodized finish, but I have not been able to turn up exactly what it is.

Sam

 

It was the only pump action, combat shotgun tested by the military that met Mil-Spec requirement Mil S-3443 which consisted of 3,000 rounds of Magnum buckshot with the gun being fully operational afterward.

Just for information, they weren't Magnum(3") buckshot rounds, here is the relevant section of MIL-S-3443G:

3.17.5.1 Lot acceptance. Shotguns shall be capable of
withstanding the firing of 3,000 rounds with no unserviceable, or
broken parts and no more than three (3) malfunctions using
standard commercial 12-gauge, 2 3/4-inch, 00 buckshot (9
pellets), maximum load shells. Type I shotguns shall include M7
bayonet and scabbard as specified in 3.3.1.a.

FYI only.

 

It was the only pump action, combat shotgun tested by the military that met Mil-Spec requirement Mil S-3443 which consisted of 3,000 rounds of Magnum buckshot with the gun being fully operational afterward.

Just for information, they weren't Magnum(3") buckshot rounds, here is the relevant section of MIL-S-3443G:

3.17.5.1 Lot acceptance. Shotguns shall be capable of
withstanding the firing of 3,000 rounds with no unserviceable, or
broken parts and no more than three (3) malfunctions using
standard commercial 12-gauge, 2 3/4-inch, 00 buckshot (9
pellets), maximum load shells. Type I shotguns shall include M7
bayonet and scabbard as specified in 3.3.1.a.

FYI only.

And Mossberg is the only shotgun that passed because no other company submitted a shotgun for testing.

 

And Mossberg is the only shotgun that passed because no other company submitted a shotgun for testing.

I'd heard that also but can't find any verification beyond the anecdotal internet statement. Do you know of any documents that verify that?

And before anyone says I'm bashing Mossberg, I just bought a 590A1 last week and, because I live in CA, will pick it up Tuesday. It's the first Mossberg anything I've ever owned and I bought it because I want to directly compare to my 870 that I carried for many years. A $500 bill is a lot to invest just for comparison but I did it because of all the love I've seen for the 590A1.

 

It is quite possible to stick a shell in these guns if it has been fired in another shotgun and reloaded for your gun without a full sizing of the brass case head.

Reloads are for the Trap range. They have no place what so ever in a defensive shotgun you are prepared to bet your life on.

 

Well I decided to head out to the desert today with the new Mossberg 590 A-1 and run it through it's paces. We got almost an inch of rain last night, so I knew it wouldn't be too dusty, that's for sure. I brought along a hand trap and some clay targets, and a bunch of water filled jugs, cans, and some other stuff I had lying around to shoot at. I stopped at Cabela's this morning and picked up another 100 rounds of the Rio, 00 Buckshot they had on sale for just $2.19 for a box of 5. I also had some Federal 3" 000 Magnum Buckshot loads, and about 50 slug loads. Some Winchester, Remington, and a few Federal.

Before we left I lubed the action up really good. I set up several water filled 2 liter bottles at about 30 feet, and filled the magazine with 3" rifled slugs. The gun ran through them flawlessly, vaporizing the bottles into nothing more than shredded plastic. The 3" Magnum 000 Buckshot loads did much the same. Recoil was stout, but it felt a bit less than the same loads run through my Mossberg 500 I brought along as well. I had a can of Miller Lite that's been sitting in the fridge for months that I shook up real good, then smacked it with a 3" slug from about 25 feet away. It erupted like a can of shaving cream! It's amazing how accurate that single bead front sight is once you learn to settle into the same sight position every time.

My wife shot it with both the slugs and buckshot loads, but found the recoil to be a bit uncomfortable. I had a bunch of Trap loads I brought along, so I threw several clays for her, which she had no trouble breaking consistently. Tossing clay targets from a hand trap is like shooting fish in a barrel, when compared to shooting singles from the 16 yard line, but it's still enough of a challenge to do it with a cylinder bore riot gun.

I had some short pieces of 2 X 4's I brought along, and sat them against a small hill. I shot them with 3" 000 buckshot, 2 ¾" 00 buckshot, as well as Trap loads, (1 1/8 ounce of #8's loaded with 17.5 grains of Clays). From 6 to 8 feet away the buckshot had zero trouble chewing the 2 X 4's in half. It didn't surprise me how much damage the Trap loads did from that distance either. They would have been extremely lethal at that close of a range. They chewed right through the wood like a spade drill. The 1-1/8th ounces of shot almost acting like a slug at that close of a distance.

Through all of this the gun performed flawlessly. It was amazing how slick the action became after about 200 rounds or so. It was very humid, so after cleaning up after ourselves we decided to call it a day. After we got home it was humid as hell out, so I set up a fan in the garage and gave both guns a good wet cleaning with clean Kerosene, cut with a little Hoppes #9. Both barrels got a good brushing until they were spotless. While shooting I tried not to heat them up too much. This greatly reduced the plastic fouling from the wads. Afterward I gave the actions a good blow dry with compressed air, and a good oiling. The 590 A-1's action improved immensely after the cleaning and relubrication. It's far smoother than I though it would get from just a bit of use. The Parkerizing can be quite "gritty", and after you wear it off the high contact areas, it really smoothens thing up.

The only downside to the day was the high humidity from all the rain we got last night. But I can't complain. And the way it's shaping up, it's looking like we're in for some more rain later today and tonight. We don't get much of it in these parts. All in all it was a good day, and I couldn't ask for a better performing gun than this new Mossberg 590 A-1 Mil-Spec!

 

I had some short pieces of 2 X 4's I brought along, and sat them against a small hill. I shot them with 3" 000 buckshot, 2 ¾" 00 buckshot, as well as Trap loads, (1 1/8 ounce of #8's loaded with 17.5 grains of Clays). From 6 to 8 feet away the buckshot had zero trouble chewing the 2 X 4's in half. It didn't surprise me how much damage the Trap loads did from that distance either. They would have been extremely lethal at that close of a range. They chewed right through the wood like a spade drill. The 1-1/8th ounces of shot almost acting like a slug at that close of a distance.

Just FYI, bad guys come in different shapes and sizes then just (as you mentioned above) "stick" figures.........

 

Your point?

 

It didn't surprise me how much damage the Trap loads did from that distance either. They would have been extremely lethal at that close of a range. They chewed right through the wood like a spade drill.

Only if you're attacked by a horde of boards. Please don't go there and start up this oft-repeated myth. You cannot equate what you see birdshot do to inanimate objects with how effective a fight stopper it will be.

The 1-1/8th ounces of shot almost acting like a slug at that close of a distance.

"Almost" is for hand grenades. Physics dictates that it is a completely false assumption.

Other than these two, good report. Glad you had fun and delighted you guys are getting some rain. You need some up in the hills so the ground cover will grow again and stop those West Texas dust storms you get from time to time.

I'm not going to comment on your signature though.

 

You're probably right. 1, 1/8 ounces of lead traveling 1,200 FPS across a living room would do nothing. That hole through 2" of wood didn't exist. Why? Because the Internet says so. Why, I'll bet if I ever shot anyone with that load at close range, they'd simply walk away, after having all of that lead simply bounce off! In fact a "Combat Pistol Instructor" who "grew up" around shotguns, told me that very same thing. He suggested I lose that 12 Gauge and get a defense weapon that was capable of stopping an intruder. A .380 Auto! :roll:

 

You're probably right. 1, 1/8 ounces of lead traveling 1,200 FPS across a living room would do nothing. That hole through 2" of wood didn't exist. Why? Because the Internet says so. Why, I'll bet if I ever shot anyone with that load at close range, they'd simply walk away, after having all of that lead simply bounce off! In fact a "Combat Pistol Instructor" who "grew up" around shotguns, told me that very same thing. He suggested I lose that 12 Gauge and get a defense weapon that was capable of stopping an intruder. A .380 Auto! :roll:

Oh well...I tried. If you simply cannot grasp the principles of penetration, physics, and ballistic wounding effects, on top of the fact that wood is not flesh and blood and bone shooting back at you, then I cannot help you. Get all defensive about it. I would suspect your Instructor got a bit tongue in cheek, perhaps because he had gotten so many idio....err....folks telling him how effective a fight stopper birdshot is. I know the feeling well. Then again, I know some situations where a .380 with ball might work better than birdshot.

Nothing to do with what the internet says. In point of fact, it is all the loons who have never even been close to any actual shooting who insist that Hollywood has it right. "Birdshot will pick a man up and throw him 15 feet across a room and make him instantly dead. Of course, the fact that that man gets up, wipes the fake blood off, and goes on with his day doesn't matter. That birdshot is the biggest killer since Atilla the Hun."

Believe what you want. Remain comfortable in your beliefs. Go ahead and load up some birdshot to stop someone from killing you and your family. Just don't lead others to believe the myth with you and get their loved ones killed as a result.

BTW...some of us on here have worn badges. Some have shot and been shot at. We've been around more dead and shot folks than any of us would have liked. My advice to you is to go find some professional defensive shotgun instruction. Argue with them.

I should add: If it sounds like I'm being over the top with you...well, count me with your "Combat Pistol Instructor."

 

Oh well...I tried. If you simply cannot grasp the principles of penetration, physics, and ballistic wounding effects, on top of the fact that wood is not flesh and blood and bone shooting back at you, then I cannot help you.

No, I "grasp" the principals of COMMON SENSE. A commodity that appears to be in short supply in this conversation. If you wish to serve as my test medium from 8 ft. with a 1-1/8 oz. load of #8's sreaming at your chest at 1,200 FPS, I welcome the opportunity for you to "educate" me. After you walk away from the blast that won't penetrate anything, I'll sit tight and listen to you tell me "I told you so!". :roll:

 

Oh well...I tried. If you simply cannot grasp the principles of penetration, physics, and ballistic wounding effects, on top of the fact that wood is not flesh and blood and bone shooting back at you, then I cannot help you.

No, I "grasp" the principals of COMMON SENSE. A commodity that appears to be in short supply in this conversation. If you wish to serve as my test medium from 8 ft. with a 1-1/8 oz. load of #8's sreaming at your chest at 1,200 FPS, I welcome the opportunity for you to "educate" me. After you walk away from the blast that won't penetrate anything, I'll sit tight and listen to you tell me "I told you so!". :roll:

If that is indeed true sir, then tell me this. Why don't military and law enforcement applications use #8's as their go to load? "The principals of common sense" would dictate that a homeowner/individual would use the same equipment as the pros.......

 

check this test out. Bird shot is at the end

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

 

If that is indeed true sir, then tell me this. Why don't military and law enforcement applications use #8's as their go to load? "The principals of common sense" would dictate that a homeowner/individual would use the same equipment as the pros.......

Come on, again apply common sense. I never said it was "better". I said it was lethal. What's next? Are they going to be trading in their .50 BMG rifles for 20 MM Anzio's? You know, for "Winter Work", in case the perp is wearing flannel clothing? :roll:

 

No, I "grasp" the principals of COMMON SENSE. A commodity that appears to be in short supply in this conversation. If you wish to serve as my test medium from 8 ft. with a 1-1/8 oz. load of #8's sreaming at your chest at 1,200 FPS, I welcome the opportunity for you to "educate" me. After you walk away from the blast that won't penetrate anything, I'll sit tight and listen to you tell me "I told you so!". :roll:

Your version of common sense notwithstanding, your arguments are old and outdated. I won't let you shoot me from 8 feet with a slingshot sending a rock screaming at my chest at 25 feet per second. That doesn't mean a slingshot is an effective defensive weapon. End of story.

You simply don't know what you're talking about. Birdshot is much less lethal than buckshot. A kitchen butter knife can be lethal. An angry woman with a cast iron skillet can be lethal. As I suggested before. Go take a defensive shotgun course and argue your points with them. I'm sure they'll be thrilled to listen to you.

BTW real common sense would dictate that you use the load that gives you the BEST chance of survival. Using something less is a fool's territory.

 

Birdshot is much less lethal than buckshot.

In the confines of a suburban home, it isn't going to matter. You can't kill something, or someone "deader". What you can do is get yourself into a lot of trouble if what you use over penetrates into the next dwelling and injures or kills someone. You are responsible when you discharge a weapon, regardless if it's in a self defense situation or not.

Exterior walls in modern suburban cookie cutter houses in the desert southwest consist of little more than chicken wire and stucco. I can kick through an outside wall in a pair of combat boots. You don't "need" 00 Buck to kill someone with a 12 gauge shotgun across a king sized bed. If you think you do, you're talking completely out of your ***. Look up forensic photos of birdshot shotgun wounds from 10 ft. or less. They're called "forensic" photos because the person photographed IS DEAD. Stop believing everything you read on the Internet. You don't "need" Magnum buckshot loads in a 12 gauge shotgun to produce a lethal wound across a living room. If you're going to argue that point you're an idiot, and this conversation is over.

 

In the confines of a suburban home, it isn't going to matter. You can't kill something, or someone "deader". What you can do is get yourself into a lot of trouble if what you use over penetrates into the next dwelling and injures or kills someone. You are responsible when you discharge a weapon, regardless if it's in a self defense situation or not.

You'll be in a lot more trouble if your birdshot does not penetrate enough to stop your attacker. The likelihood of that happening is pretty good.

Exterior walls in modern suburban cookie cutter houses in the desert southwest consist of little more than chicken wire and stucco. I can kick through an outside wall in a pair of combat boots. You don't "need" 00 Buck to kill someone with a 12 gauge shotgun across a king sized bed. If you think you do, you're talking completely out of your a$$. Look up forensic photos of birdshot shotgun wounds from 10 ft. or less. They're called "forensic" photos because the person photographed IS DEAD. Stop believing everything you read on the Internet. You don't "need" Magnum buckshot loads in a 12 gauge shotgun to produce a lethal wound across a living room. If you're going to argue that point you're an idiot, and this conversation is over.

Dead - is that what "forensic" means? You sure? Been watching CSI a lot? You're just digging your hole deeper and deeper. Displaying your lack of knowledge won't win the point.

 

I love me some 590

Edited to remove insult

Cheney couldnt, perfect example. The fact that Ive used buckshot and been less then impressed unless you get all the pellets into major organs or blood vessels is another good reason.

IME Slugs rule, followed by flight contro OO buck(never used for anti personel but slams deer better than standard buck), followed by regular buck. Birdshot is for birds period

 

You'll be in a lot more trouble if your birdshot does not penetrate enough to stop your attacker. The likelihood of that happening is pretty good.

Stop long enough with your idiotic bull$h!t to listen to yourself. You honestly believe that if you shoot someone in the confines of your home, (under 15 feet), with a 12 gauge shotgun, you think he's going to respond like Kevin Bacon in "Animal House" with "Thank you sir, May I have another!". Grow up.

Cheney couldnt, perfect example.

No, stupid example. That accidental shot took place at a distance of 30 to 40 yards, NOT 15 FEET. Hardly the distance we're talking here. Talk sense, not $h!t.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney

 

Sure is a lot of anger in this thread. I think it's been said but bears repeating that while birdshot may work at extremely close ranges, buckshot works better at extremely close ranges and ranges beyond that.

As for forensic photos of gunshot wounds, I just transferred out of a Forensic Investigative Unit where I photographed and processed at autopsy dozens of homicide victims suffering from dozens of different types of injuries, mostly gunshot.

Heck, I remember one case where a victim was confronted by two suspects, one armed with a single shot 12 gauge, the other with a .38 Special revolver. When the victim turned to the leave, the shotgun suspect shot him from less that 3 feet away with a slug. It was cross body, victim left to right, below the ribcage and through the intestine. It was perforating in that it exited. After being shot, the victim bent over and ran away. The second suspect fired several times, striking the victim once in the back. The victim died on scene.

At autopsy, I was in impressed with the damage the slug did. It literally pulled a big wad of intestine with it out the exit wound. The pathologist was unimpressed and said it would have taken days or longer to die from the wound and even then it would be from infection. The pistol bullet, however, traversed his torso back to front, bottom to top, perforating the heart and stopping just under the skin on the right chest. Hell, he didn't even bleed out of the wounds because his heart stopped pumping immediately. Very interesting.

Anyway, I digress. #1 is shot placement, #2 is enough penetration to hit the vitals, even through bone and a distant #3 is projectile size and design. Birdshot can have trouble with #2 and definitely has trouble with #3, #1 is all you.

 

Stop long enough with your idiotic bull$h!t to listen to yourself. You honestly believe that if you shoot someone in the confines of your home, (under 15 feet), with a 12 gauge shotgun, you think he's going to respond like Kevin Bacon in "Animal House" with "Thank you sir, May I have another!". Grow up.

I'm not surprised that your Combat Pistol Instructor answered you in the way he did.

Talk sense, not $h!t.

I'm not sure you'd know it if you heard it. You can spout nonsense and appeal to movies till the cows come home. Some forums tolerate incorrect information and wrong-headed opinions. We don't. If you want to operate on your opinions based on no real world experience on your part, be my guest. Just don't expect to voice them without a lot of opposition. Now surprise us and offer some adult discussion.

 

You'll be in a lot more trouble if your birdshot does not penetrate enough to stop your attacker. The likelihood of that happening is pretty good.

Stop long enough with your idiotic bull$h!t to listen to yourself. You honestly believe that if you shoot someone in the confines of your home, (under 15 feet), with a 12 gauge shotgun, you think he's going to respond like Kevin Bacon in "Animal House" with "Thank you sir, May I have another!". Grow up.

I have used 00 in combat and had insergents continue to fire occasionaly with a full load of buckshot in their torso after I shot them in the confines of a mud hut (under 15 feet). That is why I prefer slugs. When you grow up, enlist, go to war and get some experience. Report back when you do, untill then STFU and read more/type less

Cheney couldnt, perfect example.

No, stupid example. That accidental shot took place at a distance of 30 to 40 yards, NOT 15 FEET. Hardly the distance we're talking here. Talk sense, not $h!t.

touche, but i want my fighting weapon loaded for home defense AND the occasion when a miscreant is 50-60 yards away and needs shooting, wether they are threatoning a loved one, a LEO, or a complete stanger. There may not be time to grab another

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney