Please don't get him a .410, that would be an April Fools Day present rather than a Christmas present. If you can't find 20 gauge shells lite enough, ask someone to load some for you.

 

We have a Mini-510 for our smaller shooters in our 4-H program, and IT KICKS LIKE A MULE! The Mini-510 is very lightweight. We have several shooters who, although 10-12 years old, are very small at just over 4 feet tall and weighing around 75 to 80 pounds. The Mini-510 fits them better than our 20 gauge autoloaders but the recoil is enough to push them backward so hard it nearly knocks them off their feet. This has the obvious effect of causing them to anticipate and flinch. For the last session of the year I had acquired some Fiocchi Lite-20 managed recoil ammo for them to use with the Mini-510. It's basically a low velocity (1050 feet per second) 28 Ga load in a 20 Ga shell. We had one shooter try it and it didn't make a big difference. There was a small improvement, but not as much as I had hoped. I know all the training material says to stay away from .410 for beginners but I'm not sure you are going to find any other gun a 7 year old can handle. It's just a matter of physics- to shoot a load of lead forward at 1200 FPS you are going to get a certain amount of recoil. A good fitting heavy gun and a good thick recoil pad, neither of which lend themselves to a small shooter, are the only things that will reduce the felt recoil of a pump or single shot gun. If you have deep pockets you could get a 28 GA autoloader custom fit for him, but my guess is that is going to set you back $1500 to $2000. I continue to look for a solution to this issue. Unfortunately we are at the end of our season so it will be next spring before I can get good feedback on a few modifications I want to make to the Mini-510 such as an aftermarket recoil pad and adding a bit of weight to the stock and forearm.
Good Luck,
Don

 

Hey Don,
Thanks for sharing some real world experience with the 510 mini. You touched on my main concern that even with the trainer loads, the recoil may be excessive. I looked into a Remington 1100 28 ga auto, however they can't be cut shorter than a 12-12 1/8th LOP. So even that option will have to wait until he gets a bit bigger.

 

I run the annual youth shoot at our club. We run about 150 kids through a shotgun station, as one of 5 stations. I line them up by height and separate them into shooting groups. The bigger kids shoot a youth Remington 1100. The smaller kids shoot a Mossberg 500 Super Bantum, and the really little kids shoot a H&R 410 that I have cut down to 12" LOP with a Limbsaver pad. I have the 410 guys shoot at stationary targets, and I also have to cock the gun for them as they usually aren't strong enough to cock the external hammer. The Super Bantum 20 gauge does kick a bit, but we talk about leaning into the shot, and the gun fits them. They also only shoot about 5 times, unless they want to shoot more. I also have not yet found the perfect solution for the very young shooter. The Remingtom Youth 1100 20 gauge works well as they get a little bigger. One option, if you reload 20s, is to load up some really light 3/4 oz loads. I don't use reloads for the youth shoot, for liability reasons, but for personal use, they would lessen recoil. They also won't cycle semi-autos.

 

Hank,
When I wrote my first response I was thinking only of the mechanics of fitting a shotgun to a small boy. Later I realized I overlooked another aspect that is at least as important; the ability of a 7 year old to reason and his ability to shoot moving targets with a shotgun. My experience and certifications are for 10 years old and up. Even 10-12 year olds are still stuck in the "concrete reasoning" stage of childhood and have a hard time learning to lead the target. You can teach them to lead by a certain amount, as you do in skeet, but then they will always lead by that amount. If you need to see this lack of mental capacity in action watch a bunch of 7-12 year olds try to pass a basketball while running down the court. Almost every pass will be behind the intended target. And that is in a situation they can see and understand all the elements they are dealing with. Shotgunning at sporting clays or trap targets is completely out of the realm of reasoning for most kids younger than 12 or 13.

I would encourage you to take your son to a place where he can shoot some stationary targets (balloons and stationary clay targets are great) with the .410. If you have a place to throw some close-in, slow moving targets with a hand thrower he might find that challenging enough to keep him interested until his body and mind have matured enough to handle a 20 GA and moving targets.

Good luck,
Don

 

Hank

I feel your pain. Like most of us dads you can't wait to get the boy out there with you. However if he is physically to small maybe you should wait. I am in the camp that the .410 is not good for a beginner. A 20 that is too light will punish him. My son is pretty tough and a bit small for 10. He has a Rossi combo with a 20 ga barrel and it beat he snot out of him. I think for a younger kid it would be worse. I got him a youth 870 in 20 and he can shoot it all day. But I think it would be too much for your son. So I think you have to decide between a gun that may be very hard to hit anything with (.410) and one that may be too painful to shoot (20). Given those options I would wait.

Bruce

 

I just bought my 6YO a Mossberg Mini 510 in 410.. It will be his Christmas present this year. Don't let the 410 fool you.. It is plenty of gun for sporting clays.. Yes it may not be the biggest pattern thrower, but if he gets good with the 410 everything else will be easier later on. A miss is not near as much a deterant to shooting than being knocked silly.

 

I bought my son (9) the mini 510 in 20ga for Christmas last year for the same reason. It was the only one that would fit him without cutting. DON'T DO IT. As previously posted, it kicks like a mule. He was excited at first to shoot it, but it did not take long before he was done. Now I am trying to get him to go out with his sister and I to shoot. She has a 1100 youth 20ga. Try and find a good auto to help with the recoil. Also, it's going to be tough for him to get that second shot off when shooting doubles. Thanks, Steven

 

Thanks for all the great feedback guys! It is much appreciated!!

 

Just an FYI.. I took the mini 510 410 to camp with me this weekend and let 2 boys shoot it.. One was 6 and one was 9.. The gun was still a little big for the 6yo, but it really fit the 9 YO great.. The 6YO didn't want to stop shooting it, but I am sure the 2O would have been way to much gun for him..

 

I got one last spring for my 7yr old daughter last spring. The grip was too big and she couldn't hold it and even with Winlites she took one to the cheekbone and wanted nothing to do with it. She shoots the AR 15 good and handles that type of stock well so I got an ATI pistol grip collapsible and put that on. Then I put a SIMS slip over recoil pad. That was better but it was hitting high and right and I wanted it for her for turkey so I put an ATG rail on it and a red dot scope. She shot Win lites for practice to get used to the red dot. On game day she rolled a nice tom at 23yds with Federal HiPower copper plated 2.75" 5shot. I asked her if it kicked when she killed her turkey and she looked at me almost confused and said I don't know, I don't think so. Oh yeah the safety goes super hard and the trigger has a mile of creep and is about 8 pounds it seems. I did send it back to Mossberg and they replaced the barrel. It patterns better now but I am still going with the pistol grip ATI stock and a red dot for turkeys this year. Shooting those number 5's yesterday with it and it does deliver a beating to me so I can't imagine how it would be for her, but the Winlites are much better. I am going to get the Fiocchi's now since Winlites are discontinued.

 

Nice!

A comb with no drop makes sense to reduce cheek slap.

With the standard stock, I'd be tempted to add some weight. Maybe put in a tube for the stock bolt, and then fill with a shot&epoxy mixture starting with the grip.

 

I feel your pain! I just got done doing this with my 9 yr old daughter.

I ended up getting her a Rem 1187 Sportsman Compact, after she had a bad experience with a youth 870.

I cut the stock down, and shortened the action tube and spring. The gun cycles perfectly with remington managed recoil loads.

I also filled the empty synthetic stock with fishing sinkers and added a comb pad to level and raise the comb.

She giggles after she shoot it now!

The LOP is 10 inches now, about 1 inch shorter than the 510 and is really a powder puff to shoot.

 

This is not gonna be what you want to hear.

I have been coaching a 4H shotgun program for the last 8-9 years. We start the kids at 9 years old. At 9 some are big and some are tiny. You need to get a little hard core here, use tough love, and some good common sense.

If your son is simply to small to handle even a lightweight shotgun WITH GOOD FORM, then he is simply too small to be shooting a shotgun. If the kid can not hold up a shotgun, he should not be allowed to shoot that gun. This can very quickly turn into a real safety hazard...if he can't control the gun, he can not shoot it...or really learn to shoot it. That situation is no good for all parties concerned. He will get snot knocked out him, learn really bad form that will take a long to correct later, and HE will not enjoy it as much as you think he will.

Time is your son's side. He will grow, he will get stronger, and better co-ordinated. THEN get him in a good fitting gun. In the mean time, train him in safety matters and teach him to be a master with that 22.

This gun, that gun, pump, auto, reduced loads....none of that matters in the light of a safety issue. If you are just gonna shoot stationary targets, use the 22...cheaper and no recoil. Shotguns are for moving targets. Give him something to look forward to....when I get bigger, I get to shot shotguns. Right now, you two can have a ball shooting with each other. Shotguns can wait.

 

My son was also 7 when he started actually hunting turkey with me 3 years ago. He is small for his age and was no more than 60 lbs. I had a Rem 1100 LT youth model 20 gauge that I used as a kid. I installed a synthetic youth stock and forearm, and most importantly a Limbsaver pad(which I have now installed on several guns I own). Being an older gun, it had a 28" full choke fixed barrel and a 2.75" chamber, but it works great. The combination of the automatic and the pad drastically reduces the recoil. He even shoots custom loaded Nitro turkey loads with no problem. I also put a red dot scope on it, which he loves. On our first day hunting together, we called a group of gobblers up and doubled on our first shot. Needless to say he is hooked as well. I highly recommend an automatic, and the Limbsaver pad that boasts up to 70% recoil reduction. Hope this helps!