First off, let me explain that I am not implying that my advice is "the only way to go". :wink:

But.......

I went to Thunder Ranch to take the Defensive Shotgun Course and brought a $169 Mossberg Maverick pump, that I had sawed off to 19 inches. The only "extras" were a butt cuff with extra ammo and a leather sling.

I ran the course just fine. And some of the guys there had $2,000+ shotguns that went belly up on them during the course.

See more here: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu61.htm

And here: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu83.htm

My recommendation: Get an inexpensive, dependable shotgun, with minimal excessories, and get some professional training.

Then practice, practice, practice.

 

If it was ME, I'd get a Wingmaster. The fit and finish is much nicer than the Express. If you can find a Wingmaster for $250 that's in good shape get it quick. You can add extensions to them. There are more and less expensive good quality parts and accessories available for the 870 than any other shotgun. I don't know much first hand about Benelli shotguns but even if they were the same price I'd get a Wingmaster given the choices you've listed.

Before you start adding anything to the gun get familiar with it. Put a bunch of rounds through it, run some drills, get some training if possible. Then you'll know what (if anything) you want to do with it.

 

You don't say how much the expresses cost, but if you can get a Wingmaster, even used, for anywhere near the same cost, I'd go for the Wingmaster.

 

You don't say how much the expresses cost, but if you can get a Wingmaster, even used, for anywhere near the same cost, I'd go for the Wingmaster.

the express is new 350.00 so the used wingmaster is a better buy?

 

I paid $260 for a pristine '80s Wingmaster a few months ago. Mine has a big long barrel on it though... all the regular 870 parts fit them too. I'd take the Wingmaster, then the Express, then a few Mossbergs, then the Benelli. All are good guns, I just prefer American made stuff.

 

I agree with what Old Painless said, although I perfer 870's, but that's personal.

 

I agree with what Old Painless said, although I perfer 870's, but that's personal.

870's are fine shotguns, and can often be found Used, at very reasonable prices. :wink:

 

Thanks for the replys I been doing some reading reguarding the 870 and found out all 870's are built on the same receivers. The finishes and attention to details are different.Express is the bargain shotgun. With that said, for a few bucks can I upgrade an Express or Wingmaster to the Police Model specs with a few parts? Anybody have any info on these older wingmaster they told me at the shop they once were police models from the 70-80 era. They look like there in good condition on the outside but don't know what to check for.

 

The Wingmaster should already have the good parts in it. I don't believe going from Wingmaster to 870P really involves upgrading anything. Before they made the 870P the Wingmaster was what you found in most patrol cars.

 

The age old question with an age old answer....Remington or Mossberg is what is usually boils down to.

I am picking this up on monday for $150 used. Its light, short, plane jane simple and combat proven reliable. Fire control layout is a little different than the 870 and the fit & finish is said to be rough around the edges compared to a Remington but both make big holes in home invaders equally well.

 

i have always felt the older remington wingmasters are beautiful. and frankly, i love the wood furniture that decorates them and the blue patina that almost drips from some of those old beauties. i am not a shotgun expert and far be it for me to tell you what is best for you. but that's the point: your shotgun has to be the best one for you. in fact, i don't even own an old wingmaster. i do own a benelli M1 Super 90 and a new remington 870P police model. i believe they are all good shotguns; pay attention to your budget and get the most your money can buy. i guess that means don't be in a big hurry and do some homework before you commit. also, search this forum high and low for threads that address your issues; there are very knowledgeable people on this forum and i have found a wealth of information here in a relatively short time. good luck with your search and don't forget "the fitting" before you buy the suit; when you narrow down the candidates, try them on for size and if you can shoot them that's even better.

-Brady-

 

Honestly, I'd happily pay more for a used Wingmaster than for a new Express. First of all, 870's, like most any pump gun, are pretty durable weapons. It's not like a used gun has lost a portion of it's useful life because it's used, so there isn't really any penalty that comes with buying a used gun. Second, the Wingmaster comes with better quality and stronger parts. Finally, the internals of the Wingmasters are polished and honed so that the gun runs smoother out of the factory than an express. A used gun that has had thousands of shells already fired will probably run even smoother than a new gun.

As far as Wingmaster vs Police, when they first introduced the police, they were built on Wingmaster receivers, and may of those receivers were already marked Wingmaster. You will be just fine with a cut down Wingmaster.

 

...I narrowed it down to three Remington 870 express and an older Wingmaster riot gun, or a Benelli Supernova....Anybody have any info on these older Wingmasters? They told me at the gunshop that they [Wingmaster 20" riot guns] once were police models from the 1970-1980 era. They look like they are in good condition on the outside but I don't know what to check for.

In 2006 Lee Lapin wrote, "In 1971 there was no internal difference that I am aware of between sporting Wingmasters and Wingmaster-marked Police and Riot guns. Differences were limited to barrel lengths. Police guns had 18" cylinder bore barrels, Riot guns had 20" cylinder bore barrels; and wood furniture. Police and Riot guns had 'corncob' or short police type fore-ends that were ribbed and plain oil-finished walnut stocks, while field guns had longer forearms and checkering. I have two Riot guns from that era and as far as I can tell they are 'just' Wingmasters with shorter factory barrels and plain walnut." Dfariswheel added, "Exactly. In the old days, factory 'riot' guns were just their commercial guns with a plain, oil finished stock and a shorter barrel. It's only in the last 10 to 15 years that Remington started to stamp their police shotguns with the POLICE mark, and that the guns started to have real differences in how they're built and equipped."

You could ask MAX100 of this forum about his excellent extensions, or look at http://www.tjgeneralstore.com/magazine_extensions.htm -- "The older model Remington 870/1100/1187 will readily accept Choate extensions without any alterations. 7 Shot model fits 18" barrel or longer. 8 Shot model fits 20" barrel or longer.
01-04-02 Choate Remington 870/1100/1187 7 Shot Extension, 12 ga., polished blue $52.00
01-04-03 Choate Remington 870/1100/1187 8 Shot Extension, 12 ga., polished blue $52.00 OUT OF STOCK
01-04-06 Choate Remington 870/1100/1187 7 Shot Matte Blue Extension, 12 ga. $52.00
01-04-07 Choate Remington 870/1100/1187 8 Shot Matte Blue Extension, 12 ga. $52.00
60-09-11 Choate 7 and 8 Shot Extra Spring $14.00"

The Express was introduced in 1987, the Express HD was introduced in 1996, and they have always been stamped Express, AFAIK. The standard $69.95 870, the 870 Wingmaster, and the 20" Wingmaster 870R Riot Grade guns were among the fifteen models of the 870 that Remington introduced in 1950. I think that 18" Wingmaster Police guns were introduced in 1953. It takes Remington about 5 hours longer of mostly hand labor at probably $40/hour to machine, polish, and finish a Wingmaster or Police model, than it takes to produce an Express. The 870 Wingmaster Police and Riot guns do not have the overly heavy 7-lb. trigger pull of the 1994 and later guns stamped 870 Police Magnum. (If I understand corrrectly, 18" and 20" guns stamped 870 Riot were discontinued in 1991. If I understand correctly, 18" and 20" guns stamped 870 Police Magnum began to be manufactured in 1994, although the 20" models were discontinued in 1995.) The bottom shotgun is a Remington 870 Wingmaster Riot gun made in 1987 that was bought from a retired sheriff's deputy for $350. It is not stamped Police or Riot, only "Wingmaster" and Magnum". It has blued steel, no engraving, a 20" barrel with rifle sights, and a walnut stock. I believe that by 1980, the 18" Wingmaster Police guns were actually stamped 870 Police. Corrections are welcome (and likely).

Good luck, wil129!

 

Thanks wfb18 for the info and explanation on the different models.

 

I have what you want. :wink: Check the classified's here at SGW.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=216227&p=1798904#p1798904

PM sent also.

 

For a long time, I thought wfb18 worked for Knoxx or Blackhawk, because of his enthusiasm and extreme detail in providing information about and defending the Specops stock.

I've come to realize he is just really good at, and dedicated toward, putting together lots of basic factual information and presenting it to inquirers, as he has done the same thing for a wide variety of products. So, hats off to wfb .

Unless, of course, he works for / owns some umbrella corportation that owns all of the companies he happens to support .

 

IMHO get the older Wingmaster. Police trade-ins although not as numerous as in prior years are readily available and at bargain prices. Generally, police trade-ins while having some dings from cruiser carry are shot very little. In addition, the fit and finish is better and, in certain instances, the parts are better as well.

I was looking for just such a shotgun for HD when I found a new 870P wood stock and blue finish at a price that I couldn't refuse. I never considered an Express where my life was concerned.

HTH,
John

 

I have what you want. :wink:
Check the classified's here at SGW.

You put much good work into your gun and somebody should buy it fast. Sorry that your shoulder didn't heal well. Good luck, Colonel!

Unless, of course, he works for / owns some Umbrella Corporation that owns all of the companies he happens to support .

There are so many nice things that I am busting to say about Aimpoints, once my associates in Raccoon City gain controlling interest.