There is one major problem with the thought process here.

To get the wife and kid's hooked on shooting, you have to make it fun. it's not going to be fun for them to shoot at targets and never hit anything-they'll get bored real quick.

Shooting a .410 on a trap range is a challenge best left to only the most skilled shotgunners. The odds of them hitting anything are very, very, small. Even on the skeet range the .410 is best left to the expert shooter to consistantly break more than 22 birds per round.

I think you'd be better off getting some soft shooting semi-auto like a Remington, etc. in 20 gauge and if they can't handle it, wait until they grow into the gun. Have a recoil pad installed also as this will help significantly with recoil, along with the gas operating system of the semi-auto.

They'll have a lot more fun if they can actually hit something. It ain't gonna happen with a .410 on a trap range.

Copterdrvr

 

Alright, for the sake of argument, let's change "shooting Trap" to "shooting empty beer cans off of fence posts".

If I remove Trap shooting from the equation and substitute it with plinking (.410-style) would this change your recommendation?

For the record, before I bought a proper Trap gun (a Winchester 101 with 32" barrels) I was shooting a Mossberg 185-K bolt action 20 gauge. This gun kicked *more* than my 101, and I'm concerned that lightweight 20 gauge guns will, in general, have way too much recoil compared to a sedate .410. In my view, a gun with a harsh recoil would be a much worse introduction to shotgunning than a sedate gun that doesn't hit much.

I understand you comments about a semi-automatic, but as I said, these guns are just too expensive.

 

if you have to go with a 410 and you want a pump that wont cost you a leg go with the mossberg, ive had one for years and have really enjoyed it . the big draw back to the 410's other than they are harder to hit with is the price of ammo. a 20 gauge youth auto with a good recoil pad(limbsaver) would be much better and it doesnt have that much recoil to it and when they get older you just change the butt stock to a full size one. another avenue would be a remington express 870 in 20 gauge.

 

ArmchairBronco,

410 is ideal for starters at young age. Almost no recoil, lighter weight etc.

Stay away from semi-autos and pumps as they might be a little to complicated for your 7 and 8 year olds.

The best choice would be a break action gun in 410. Remington's SPR 100 series comes to mind. Perfect for starters. Actually you can buy 2 of them brand new and still be under your budget of $ 300.-

http://www.remington.com/products/firea ... _specs.asp

All the best.

 

ACB, if you change the equation to cans off fenceposts, then I'll agree with the .410 idea. Light wt. no recoil.

If the intent is for the kids to hit moving targets, then I disagree wholeheartedly.

Years ago, I spent some time working with kids at a skeet range. Even though the kids were "shooting guns". they got bored fairly quickly when the attempt was made to teach them how to hit a moving target. As I'm sure you know, kids go for instant gratification and constantly missing targets gets them to the "I give up" mode pretty quick.

A .410 is a terrible gun for child OR adult to try to learn wingshooting with. If recoil is a factor, a 20 ga. semi-auto with a recoil pad is the way to go.

Copterdrvr

 

:shock: A bolt action .410 is the last gun I would use to introduce the wife and kids with. :roll:

:arrow: A bolt shotgun swings like a log and the .410 is strictly a experts gauge.
and yes I do have a bolt action .410 in my gun safe, it belonged to my mother.
The gun has got to be at least sixty years old, both my brother and I started out with it over fifty years ago.
When it came time to start my own kids out I went with a m1200 20 gauge youth pump.

:arrow: If you really got the hots to use a .410, I would really recommend a single shot/break action with a mod choke tube.
Even better then that...a 28 gauge.
:idea: a good old single shot will be a he!! of allot easier for them to handle then a clunky bolt shotgun and safer too. :wink:

 

Hello armchairbronco: Well if you have your own "target thrower" and a place to use it. A .410 is ideal, the shooter can stand to either side and they will most likely be shooting the "clay pigeons" at about 20-30 yards which is ideal for a .410

I agree with others, to take the family to a regular Trap Range and standing on the 16 yard mark, the clay pigeon will be at 30 yards before they could get a shot off and that's pushing it for a .410

However, if you want to introduce them to Skeet, that's close shooting too!

I learned to shoot out in the "country" with my dad, using a .410 He would load the target thrower and "pull" for me. 20-30 yard shots are no problem to get the hang of it with a .410 like that.

Regards Dave

 

I would rule out a .410. I would buy a 20ga 1100 and put a cheap youth stock on it. There is a world of difference between this and a cheap bolt action that will obviously kick the snot out of the shooter. The 20ga 1100 has very very little recoil. This is what I did for my son at age 8 and there was no problem. He could shoot skeet with it and also shot some trap with a Mod tube.

 

I would opt for a 28 gauge, especially with low recoil reloads if possible. At least the kids have a reasonable chance at hitting something and the recoil is light, In my "personal opinion" maybe you should get them into shoting a 22 if the recoil is a problem. Given the age of your children 7, 8 and 10 I would refrain from getting them into shotguns at this age. Let them grow up a little, but NOW is a good time to introduce them into 22's and safety practices. Shotgun shooting will probably hurt them to some degree and spoil the chances of them getting into the shooting sports. I know that there are 2 things that kids don't like, one is pain and the other is not being able to hit anything. I shoot a .410 in skeet a lot, and it is NOT easy for me to break 22 to 23 targets consistantly. I have had adults that can't break most of the birds in skeet with a 410, they get frustrated too, real quick..Getting you kids into shooting is wonderful,, but ease them into it and make sure they are successful at it. Nothing is worse than defeat when you are trying to get someone to enjoy our sport. Best of luck

 

My kids are already pretty adept at shooting a .22LR. I have a CZ-452 Scout -- this is the youth-sized offering in CZ's well-known 452 lineup. It has a 12" LOP and a 16" barrel. The kids and I both love it and we take turns shooting it at the local range.

I started shooting a .410 with my Granddad when I was about 9 years old (it was the old Mossberg 183 bolty I referred to earlier). It was a great gun that had no problem shredding the cans of Schlitz, Hamms, and Colt 45 beer that my Granddad liked to drink. We shot at stationary targets on fenceposts as well as dirt-filled cans tossed into the air. It was great fun.

There's a certain nostalgia for me in shooting a .410, and provided I keep the kids off the 16-yard line and use a manual trap machine instead (one of the trap clubs around here has one), I'm sure the kids will have a good time.

I know from personal experience that a Model 183 has the right LOP (I could always get it cut down anyway), the right weight, and virtually zero recoil, so I'm still inclined to track down an old bolty for $125 as opposed to spending big bucks on a more exotic gun like a 28 gauge or on a modern semi-automatic. The fact is, since I already have a great 12 gauge of my own (the Winchester 101), I have no interest in shooting trap with a 20 or 28 gauge. But...it might be fun to try a round or two with a .410... :wink:

 

Get TWO Guns!

1) New England Pardner .410 gauge for $100.
2) Remington 870 Express Youth 20 gauge for $250

That way the little ones can plink around all they want with the .410, and when they want to try the "big" gun and hit moving targets, they can - maybe only 3-4 shots, then back to the .410. My 10 year old did just fine today with his 870 Express - first time out - shot two boxes of shells - and hit 50% of his clays. I used Fiocchi 1075fps loads with 3/4 oz of shot. Your wife would be fine with the 20 also. They WILL hit clays with it.

Dont worry about the pump being to difficult to operate. It's not like they are going to be off on their own. I was standing right by my son to assist him as well as for safety reasons. We were doing one shell out a time and he was able to load and unload fine.

Best of luck!
Gary

 

maybe you should get them into shoting a 22 if the recoil is a problem. Given the age of your children 7, 8 and 10 I would refrain from getting them into shotguns at this age. Let them grow up a little, but NOW is a good time to introduce them into 22's and safety practices.

I agree with 4570 on using the 22 to start. If funds are really that tight, you'll find 22 ammo much cheaper than 410. Save your money a year or so on a shotgun, because I also agree with Bridgeburner about the 1100 20 gauge being an excellent starter shotgun. Again, ammo will be cheaper with a 20 gauge than a 410, and your wife and kids will have a much better chance of hitting a moving target.

 

My 7 year old stumbled into getting to shoot his 1st 22 last summer at my uncles house. He had a youth sized 22 for my cousins son, so the crew shot for a good bit. Of course, he loved it. I then got the itch to get back into guns-shooting-hunting, so after I decided to get a 28g sxs MY son was begging for a gun for his up coming birthday. LONG story short, I'm looking at this NEF Pardner Youth 28g single shot for him http://www.hr1871.com/firearms/index.php?cat=3&subcat=1
Now if I can find it in a store near me, I'll be set!

I've covered this part of SE Mi. in the last couple weeks looking for my 28g sxs and his youth size guns. And, while rifles in 22, 223, and 243 are available for younger kids under 10, I only saw a couple actual shotguns small enough for my 7 year old [he'll be 8 in a month] in that time. Those were a Rossi single shot .410 or 20g and another single shot 20g, AND that was about it. Plenty of youth mid sized semi autos, but the length and pull are just out of reach yet for my younger child.

Well, I'll report back on the 28g when we get it.

Kevin

 

ArmchairBronco

I am going to get flamed for this but quite frankly I agree with you. The .410 is ideal for younger children especially if you are only going after stationary targets (which I would highly recommend in the beginning for confidence building).

My father started me off on a 20 gauge youth Single shot and I was scared as hell of the thing. He had to brow beat me just to pull the trigger. I hated shooting. I know the 20 gauge 1100s recoil less than the single shot but it will still have some recoil.

For the wife though I would probably lean more to the 20 auto. I think she will feel better with more success and finding one shot gun to fit both your children and your wife I think will be somewhere between hard to impossible. This will also give your children something to "grow into".

As another possible scenario you may buy the wife the 20 auto and see if it is to much for the children. If it is you go with the .410 single shot or pump and call it a day.

I know I am not offering a lot of help on what model to choose (there are just to darn many out there to know all the ins and outs for all of them) and there are others here with far more experience with the different models than I have. I just thought you might like a different view.

Hope this helps and enjoy shooting with your family.

 

The Winchester 9410 Ranger Compact sure looks like a nice specimen.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/ ... 8&cat=006C

12-1/2" LOP, 20" barrel, 37" overall length, 6 lbs.

The main drawback is that it's only chambered for 2-1/2" shells (this is true for the entire 9410 line), but it seems that most skeet shooters who use a .410 go for the 2-1/2" shells anyway.

With the sad demise of Winchester, this might be the time to think seriously about adding one of these classic guns to my small collection. It would fit in nicely with the 101, Krag, CZ-452 Scout, and my CMP M1 Garand that should be arriving in a couple of months.

 

My 11-year-old shoots trap with his Baikal .410 single--vented rib, 28" barrel--and averages in the upper teens with a high of 22 from the 16 yard line (he had 19 after four stations). He reloads his own WinAAHS and loves that .410. He will shoot one round of trap per visit with my soft shooting 12 gauge trap O/U but he doesn't like the recoil or the weight of the gun. He is 5' and 90 pounds. There is no way he would even go to the range with me without that .410. He loves the fact that the experts say a .410 is bad news for trap. He disagrees. I prefer to see children using hinged action guns so I can see the action open from any angle.

 

The Winchester 9410 Ranger Compact sure looks like a nice specimen.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/ ... 8&cat=006C

12-1/2" LOP, 20" barrel, 37" overall length, 6 lbs.

The main drawback is that it's only chambered for 2-1/2" shells (this is true for the entire 9410 line), but it seems that most skeet shooters who use a .410 go for the 2-1/2" shells anyway.

With the sad demise of Winchester, this might be the time to think seriously about adding one of these classic guns to my small collection. It would fit in nicely with the 101, Krag, CZ-452 Scout, and my CMP M1 Garand that should be arriving in a couple of months.

I believe CDNN has some of the 9410 models on clearance.

 

I doubt seriously you are going to get a 9410 as cheap as a used 20 gauge 1100, and you won't have near the shotgun. For collecting, the 9410 might be a good idea, but for teaching young kids shotgunning, no way. You will be quite surprised at how much lighter recoil is from a gas gun.

 

Buying a 9410 is a pipe dream at best; ain't gonna happen.

The "smartest" buy for my needs is a low-cost, single-shot .410 shotgun chambered for 3" cartridges. My boys -- 7, 8 -- are still too young to manage a 20 gauge, and my wife is really only interested in shooting a round or two just so she can say, "Hey, I gave it a try!". But the whole family can have some fun shooting beer cans off tree stumps and fenceposts, and for this kind of plinking the .410 is ideal.

No one has yet convinced me why a used but well-cared-for Mossberg bolty couldn't do this job perfectly. If I decide to get a new gun, the NEF Pardner Youth .410 looks like the way to go.

 

Whatever floats yer boat!

 

You cannot go wrong with the Baikal/Spartan .410 sporting single--internal hammer, vented rib, 3" chamber. Most 7 or 8 year olds cannot handle the weight and length of any semi-auto, they set up with that leaning back form that we all hate to see. The 7 and 8 year olds I know cannot safely cock the hammer on a traditional single shot, the Spartan eliminates that problem. http://www.spartangunworks.com/spr100_nickel.htm

I bought mine from Davidson's for $149 with lifetime warranty. It came with walnut that puts my trap O/U to shame.

 

You cannot go wrong with the Baikal/Spartan .410 sporting single

Thanks for the link. This actually looks like a great gun for the money.

You've already talked about the walnut stock. What about the fit-and-finish? And how easy is the action to open, especially for younger kids? Do you think that 30 years from now, it will look as nice as a 30-year-old Mossberg looks today? I like the fact that it has a fixed IM choke as opposed to the usual Full choke that you tend to see on .410's. So far, the Spartan SPR100 is the nicest looking new gun in this price range.

If I can track down a minty Mossberg 183D-C, I'll probably go in that direction just for sentimental reasons (plus, I might be able to try skeet with a bolt action .410 but never with a single shot break open action). But if that plan falls through, I'll give some serious consideration to buying a Spartan.

 

If you are looking for a minimal investment - look at a Browning BPS ( pump ) in a .410 or 28ga - and I know you want to stay with the .410. The BPS is a very light gun and very easy to operate one shot at a time. If you can spend a little more money - maybe a lot more money - look at some of the Browning over/unders in 28ga and .410 But I also have to tell you - I agree with a lot of the others about the .410 not being a great idea. I start all the grandkids ( girls and boys on a 28ga over / under ) and even though they have limited upper body strength - they handle it very well. It shoots very softly - and they get a good solid pattern for skeet or sporting clays. But even the 28ga is not much of a trap gun - even for me it'll get frustrating - but skeet and sporting (if the targets are close, is a different story ). But those are the guns I would recommend you check out.

 

You cannot go wrong with the Baikal/Spartan .410 sporting single

Thanks for the link. This actually looks like a great gun for the money.

You've already talked about the walnut stock. What about the fit-and-finish? And how easy is the action to open, especially for younger kids? Do you think that 30 years from now, it will look as nice as a 30-year-old Mossberg looks today? I like the fact that it has a fixed IM choke as opposed to the usual Full choke that you tend to see on .410's. So far, the Spartan SPR100 is the nicest looking new gun in this price range.

If I can track down a minty Mossberg 183D-C, I'll probably go in that direction just for sentimental reasons (plus, I might be able to try skeet with a bolt action .410 but never with a single shot break open action). But if that plan falls through, I'll give some serious consideration to buying a Spartan.

Fit and finish? It doesn't have much. This is a $150 gun. My 9-year-old strained to close the action. It has loosened up nicely after 2,000 rounds and the nine-year-old is now 11 and divides his trap shooting between the .410 and 12 gauge.