:lol: Great post, Desertrat-- I've often been guilty of some of the stuff you mention. Actually, hanging around shotgunworld has served to remind me that I have an awful lot to learn where guns are concerned. Some of the people who post here are just wells of knowledge!

It is hard on new shooters, although they are better off in many respects than we were in my day. All my friends and I started the same way: we "inherited" a shotgun, usually the oldest one around the house, or if lucky we were given one for Christmas or a birthday. There were no hunter safety courses, no internet, no place to learn except from our fathers and other local men. Fortunately, these men generally did very well at teaching us, being the bearers of a long tradition of hunting and shooting knowledge. Of course, our fathers and uncles all had their opinions, too, and they rarely missed a chance to disagree with one another. I was raised in a family of pump gunners, all of whom would stand around at the Saturday night dance down at the firehouse and remark that autoloaders "always" jammed.

Every so often, I notice a post from a teenager who wants to shoot but whose parents don't do so. This was almost unknown where I grew up-- everybody hunted (at least, all the males did), and school attendance was sparse in deer season. I'd bet that many, even most, young people have grown up entirely outside the tradition, so who's to teach them? Us!

 

I am not 'Brand Loyal'...

I just know what I like and no one is going to change my mind

I am a bit off...Just ask my Wife...
I really like the older 'utilitarian' brands...I am in love with the Savage/Stevens/Springfield family...They can generally be had for a song...They stand up to serious abuse and come out shooting over and over...They will never win any beauty contests, but that has never been what I look for in a gun...

Another thing that draws me to them is that other people think they are 'worthless'...

What does this have to do with this thread?
Nada...

But 'I' feel better...

 

Opinions... well here's one. On giving one's opinion, I like for the person to state if he/she own's or had owned that model. I've read alot of negative reports on some of the guns that I own, I must be real lucky not to encounter the troubles that has been posted. Now with that said, I know things break and there's lemons out there, but is your opinion a fact or hear say? I've been to a team building seminar were one person reads a story to himself then tells that story to another person who tells that story to another and so on, then the last person tells the group the story, there's a big differance from the first story to the last. I'd like to read a opinion with facts and not have to wade through what comes from a neighbor's uncle's brother inlaw who knows someone.

 

I think we have to sift through most opinions carefully, particularly with a lot of the "blanket statements" made about the quality of certain firearms. After awhile, it's evident that certain posters know their "stuff", but it's also evident that others parrot the views of other posters or are just biased. That's OK with me, it makes for lively conversation!

I've owned a lot of firearms, and currently have 38 shotguns, several handguns, and a truck load of rifles. These firearms range from some very good ones to some "bargain basement" specials. A lot of these firearms have received a lot of use, even been abused at times, between me and my five sons. For the most part, few of these firearms have had serious operating problems stemming from poor quality/inferior parts. Yes, a few are getting to the point of being quite "worn" and are starting to occasionally malfunction, but few things in this world last forever, particularly with lots of use. IMHO, most of the major manufacturers' products (Remington, Winchester, Mossberg, Marlin, Beretta, Savage/Stevens, etc.) serve most folks quite well. Obviously, some are better than others, but most get the job done. I would expect a $1,000+ shotgun to be better than a $300 one when it comes to fit and finish, and even durability. With that said, some cheaper models hold their own, considering the labor and material costs associated with where they're manufactured. Yelp, there are some "dogs" out there, and they soon become know, whether they are firearms, cars, or lawnmowers.

Now in spite of my ranting above, I have to admit that part of the enjoyment of participating in this forum is the freedom to put forth one's opinion - right, wrong, or indifferent! And, if we didn't have a little "heat" here and there, it would be quite boring!!! And, by the way, my Ford IS better than your Chevy!

 

I always get a kick out of people who go on about ugly guns. I agree that it is your right to choose a gun that looks good, but I prefer to go with its reliability. My Mossberg 500 is considered ugly compared to a lot of higher end guns. However, I will not start crying on the fateful day that I am in the field and my stock gets a scratch or dent. I don't see much of the gun when I am looking down the barrel, and I don't think the game that I shoot will be concerned about whether they were killed by a pretty gun or an ugly gun. I don't care how ugly my gun is if it does its job. I have a Rossi 410/.22 matched pair. I was messing around with it in my garage last night and swung it around right into a pole. It has never been fired, but I have already put a small dent in the stock. I am not upset (although I feel stupid about it). My guns are tools. As long as they work for me they will look beautiful in my eyes.

Andrew

 

Guns are tools. But then I have always treated my tools with respect. I don't get too excited if I put a scratch in the wood but I don't mistreat the gun either.

Scott

 

I agree Winders. I treat my tools with respect. However, some of the shotguns that I have seen look amazing. I think I would cry if I took a $2500 shotgun out in the field and scratched it up on a tree or rock. That is why I go with a cheaper gun that can take the abuse. If it gets beat up a little bit, I don't care as much. I have an old Mossberg Model 20 .22 rifle that I have had since I was 14. I managed to split the stock on it while hunting tree rats. I just glued it back together. It is the most accurate rifle I have ever owned, despite its less than perfect looks.

I have spent enough time in the brush and woods to know that things can jump out and trip you. I don't ever plan on taking a spill and risking damage to my guns, but it does happen occasionally. I don't load my weapons until I am situated and ready to shoot for that reason. It is bad enough to trip and scratch up a gun. To have it go off on you would be even worse.

Andrew

 

Great post !!!!

I find that the "negative boys" typically start with " I know a guy, who knows a guy, that's married to a lady, who's mail man's son bought a _________ (insert any weapon you like)............"

Interestingly, 95 % of the malfunctions/problems I have personally seen/witnessed can by directly attributed to proper cleaning and maintenance. THis applys to $250 guns as well as $10,000. Yes, believe it or not, some of those guys shooting sxs's that cost half a house don't clean em.

Most gun designs that make it to the street have been tested to some extent and have been shown to be safe and reliable under normal shooting conditions. When all bets are off is when you utilize a shotgun for field conditions. While some of us guard our weapons from as much dirt and grime while out in the field, I have witnessed many a hunter toss down down their weapon in the mud, muck, rocks,dirt etc, proclaiming that it's a _____________(insert weapon of your choice here) made in the BY God U.S. of A. Heck, one time I filled the barrel up with mud for three days, then put a shell in. She shot just fine !!!"

If reliability were everyones sole concern there wouldn't be 1000's of firearms and models to choose from. We all tend to opinionize and form preferences.

I have a great example. I have been shooting Model 12's since I was a young pup (call it 28 years). In my life, I have personally witnessed 8-10 firing pin tips break in Model 12's, with 4 of them happening to me personally. Now, is this an unreliable weapon ? Not in my opinion. If I could only have one pump shotgun, the Model 12 would be my personal choice. It doesn't bother me that I have to carry spare floating firing pins.

I just recently bought a semi auto for duck hunting. I shied away from gas operated auto's as I know a guy, that knows a guy who met a guy at the barber shop that said that gas operated guns don't work worth a damn in the cold !

Now we all know this is pure horse $h!t as tens of thousands of gas operated auto's have served hunters well for years in the harshest of cold environments. Yet I still chose a mechanical recoiling auto versus gas operated. Get my drift ?

My point to my endless diatribe is that:

1) People form opinions. They may not be accurate or fair, but they remain steadfast in their respective beliefs !

2) People have different opinions about the level of reliability. While my Nova may eat dirt clods, my over and under will most certainly pee the bed when it touches the first grain of sand.

I guess I choose the proper tool for the environment, keep my guns clean, and viola !.....Reliability.

I shall retire from my soap box.

 

O.K. my turn. How many times have you heard someone knock the gun they use or the hunting dog they own is the worst breed out there? Probably not too many. So this is "my" madness on how I diseminate information I read on this forum or anywhere for that matter. Here goes:
As far as firearms are concerned, I read as much information as I can about that particular brand, talk to people that have owned them or do own them, and use your eyes too see what other guys are shooting, and talk to them and hey, maybe they'll even let you try it out. And probably one of the most important things too me is how the gun feels in my hands! Let me give you a small example. I think the Berreta Al 391's are sharp looking guns, I know alot of guys that shoot one and shoot them well also! I also hear about how great thier action is! BUT. I am a skeet shooter, alot of these guys are shooting at the range with them now, so of course I was very curious about Beretta 391, (being that I'm always looking for new toys!) I read alot of info. on the internet, went to the local gun shop, and checked it out (didn't feel right too me) One of my buddies at the club let me shoot it! Conclusion. Gun does not fit me, Shooting 1 1/8 Winchester Double AA, kicked the hell out of me (that's why gun fit is very important to me) and I shot like hell! Went back out with my trusty Remington 11-87 and ran'em. but man does the Beretta look nice (silver gold model 391)
Is Beretta a bad gun? "No" Will I bad mouth them?, maybe when it comes to my personal experience maybe not. As much as I like the way it looks, and some of my good friends swear by them, I have made up my own mind! I'm a Remington fan as far as reliability and my own personal experience.
Guess that wasn't too short, but I hope you get the gist of my post! Good Luck and Happy Holidays!

 

Desertrat,

Good post. It is best if one is looking for opinions to ask for experience with the firearm in question. Pay attention to those who have owned the gun and do not like it and ignore those who overheard someone who's cousin knew someone who did not like them. An opinion should come with first hand experience and not heresay.

In the rifle industry lately, the Browning A Bolt is suffering the same fate. Those who own them are having a love affair with their rifles. Those who don't will tell you how terrible they are. Sometimes the grain of salt that we need to take with thier view quickly becomes a block.

 

I have purchased two O/U's this year, one from a store, the other I have ordered online (via ffl), Both guns have defects that require me to send them back to the manufacturers for repair, ( I do not know that I will ) one is missing the markings for the berrall selector (O or U ) and the other was seposed to have a center bead and does not, both guns are from "excelent" manufacturers, they both shoot beautifull and fit fine etc...etc... I guess the point I'm trying to make is that no matter who made the gun, whose name is on the gun (not always the same) or who sold the gun, whatever you buy is yours to own and live with till you sell it or give it away. and you will not know untill you try.

 

The general tone of the post is a good indication of its validity - an inarticulate rant that condemns all models produced by a particular manufacturer, for instance. The more rational the post, the more likely it is to be valid.

As has been stated, unless it's first person experience, it's probably the shooter's equivalent of urban legend, or it's an outright fabrication to support a dearly held opinion.

I like to think that most of the participants here are discriminating enough to sort the wheat from the chaff.

 

I have purchased two O/U's this year, one from a store, the other I have ordered online (via ffl), Both guns have defects that require me to send them back to the manufacturers for repair, ( I do not know that I will ) one is missing the markings for the berrall selector (O or U ) and the other was seposed to have a center bead and does not, both guns are from "excelent" manufacturers, they both shoot beautifull and fit fine etc...etc... I guess the point I'm trying to make is that no matter who made the gun, whose name is on the gun (not always the same) or who sold the gun, whatever you buy is yours to own and live with till you sell it or give it away. and you will not know untill you try.

Stanger, just curious, but what two o/u's did you buy?

 

Is this forum called "Gun Opinions" or "Gun FACTS" ? Anyone can give an opinion, hopefully it's an honest one, but if you don't like what someone has posted, life goes on! Don't take things so personal some of you. I am guilty of it myself from time to time. Everyone is just trying to get some information or just plain talk shotguns. I for one look forward to visiting this site daily, for 3 reasons
1. If I can help someone out, Great!
2. Get some information for myself
3. Read some rantings from others that make no sense to anyone (well almost anyone?)