Go with either one of the Franchis, they are great guns, I personally didn't the remy all that much. You can also try looking in the Young Guns section of the forums, it'll have more information on youth guns.

 

It looks like you need several guns for a group of three.
I'm not sure what you already have in your collection but kids grow up fast.
I started shooting a 12g 870 when I was 12 years old. I started with light loads and before long I was shooting magnum loads at the end of the hunting season.
I would buy the Premier over the Sportsman, especially, if you are only shooting clays. Premier is lighter too.
I hear the Franchis' are pretty good guns but I have no experience with them.

 

Have you looked at the Beretta's at all? My 12yr old shoots a 12ga 391 RL Parrelle Target. It's an excellent gun and will cycle any ammo we've put through it. It's a little more than the Franchi but will hold it's value better if you decide to sell it and comes with more extras. Maybe a used one would be another way to go. It's going to be hard to find a gun that will work for all 3 of them. Is there any reason your choseing a 20ga over a 12ga? I was thinking the same thing when I got my son his gun but found that with light ammo the 12ga recoiled less than the 20ga. I also found that light 12ga loads were easier and cheaper than 20ga loads. The 12ga isn't that much heavier than the 20ga either in the Beretta's, they are light well balanced guns to start with. Shooting with your kids is a blast. I hope you find what your looking for.

Tim

 

Remington.
I have a stable full of them. Utterly reliable.

I did buy the 11-87 Sportsman Youth (20 ga.) for my wife and daughter to use.
I bought it at Dick's Sporting Goods for less than $500, out the door.

I also bought an 870 Express Youth in 20 ga for my 10 year old to use.
I bought a 'beater' stock and cut it down to fit him, but, the recoil of the Winchester AA 20 ga shells still does a 'number' on him.
I have a Limbsaver™ pad to fit on it, to reduce recoil, some more.

The 11-87 is going to absorb a lot of recoil due to the gas system.
I'd buy the Remington.

Keith

 

11-87's have screw in choke tubes.

 

Rich in PA

First of all,

WELCOME TO SHOTGUNWORLD!!!!!

Now, you said this:

I really like the Remington, but I'm not confident it will cycle the required target loads that my club will allow.

What are your range's limitations/restrictions?

Have you considered the LT-20 Youth? I would suspect it would digest the necessary fodder required by your club. You may have to search a bit for one. They do tend to be front end heavy though.

 

I'd go with the 11-87. I have a 20 ga and it has no trouble handling gun club target loads. Even with heavier game loads there is no recoil.

 

-

Remington model 1187 Sportsman Youth

This gun will cycle everything I've ever seen for sale as a 20 ga target load, it comes with flush, Rem Choke(s) so you can buy all the after market chokes you desire.

My kids shoot 1100, 1187 with no problem, other than paying for the rounds.....

 

Rich, welcome to SGW!!! A few things to consider:

With a Remington 11-87 Youth model you can add an R3 recoil pad to an already soft shooter. When your sons outgrow the Youth stock dimensions, synthetic stocks and longer barrels are more readily available and inexpensive than the other guns mentioned. That said, Beretta & Franchi have fine reputations & a strong following. By the way, my 11-87 Sportsman gobbles up light target loads.

 

I purchased a Franchi 620 (basically a 720 with a different shaped receiver) for my kids and they find it very easy to shoulder. The gun is very light and cycles all but the very lightest reloads. Really the best thing to do would be to take the kids in to handle a few guns themselves.

 

All the recomendations are pretty good. We use a set of Rem 1100 and 870 20ga youth models for teaching hunters ed.

I'm just happy to see nobody recommended a single shot hammer gun. I really don't like teaching youngsters with them.

 

The Franchi 620 and 720 youth models would be a good choice. In addition to their lighter weight, they are also narrow thru the forearm. It should be easier for someone with hands to handle than a heavier and wider model. The Franchi's are also very easy to clean and have an automatic magazine cutoff, making them a little safer.

The AL48 is even lighter and thinner. Most tend to think there is more felt recoil associated with the long recoil design than a gas operated gun. The AL48 only has a 2 3/4" chamber which makes it less versatile for hunting. The AL48 does not have shims to adjust the stock and only comes in W/B. They are about as good as they get for upland though.

 

remingtons site says its a rem choke barrel it probably only comes with a single tube but you can find them every where.if it was me id find a nice 20 ga lt 1100 and get a youth stock i havent seen a target load that mine didnt cycle.my wife is buying a 1187 20 ga in a few weeks i can let you know then about light loads if you need

 

I'm just happy to see nobody recommended a single shot hammer gun. I really don't like teaching youngsters with them.

Possibly the worst choice of all is a single shot, hammer gun. too much drop at the stock increases felt recoil, cocking the hammer is a odd thing to learn when trying to learn a smooth gun mount and these "youth single shots" are oftern very light which also increases felt recoil.

While I started on one, built a smooth mount and learned to reload from the shoulder well enough to shoot twice when needed--I prefer an 1100 Youth LT 20 to start with. A 20 Ga O/U with 28ga tubes is also a good way to start with kids.

 

Take a look at Hi Grade Shooting Supply; their web site features the new 3901 youth model. 28" barrel, adjustable comb and length of pull. Retail at $799, but it appears to be a good value.

 

My advice would be to go with a Remington 1100 LT 20ga or the 11-87 Youth 20ga that you mentioned. I have two sons that are now 16 and 13. I started them both off at about the age of 9 with an old Remington 1100 LT 20ga that I had. I'd suggest against going with the youth model, get a full sized with a 26in barrel and buy an extra youth stock or an used stock to have cut down. Also get an adjustable comb kit, there are a few kits that simply wrap around the stock and have various pads to adjust the highth of the comb for the youths smaller faces.

I'll give you some good reasons to go with a Remington auto.

First of all, the Remington autos are the lightest recoiling guns made. Less recoil will mean more fun for the kids.

Second. There are a ton of Remingtons out there which means you should be able to find new and used ones easily. This also means that Remington parts and accessories are readily available. For instance, you can easily find an extra stock so you can put a full length stock on the gun when the kids get bigger. Choke tubes are all over the place and extra barrels are also.

When I decided to have my old 1100 LT 20ga set up for my oldest son to shoot when he turned 9 I found an extra barrel and had a gunsmith cut the stock down as short as it would go to the action tube and install a thin rifle recoil pad. I also had him cut the extra vent rib barrel I had down to 21in and install choke tubes. This last part was not needed as both boys ended up liking to shoot the slightly longer 26in barrel that was originally on the gun, that's why I don't advise going with the short 21in barreled youth model.

The youth 1100 or 11-87 model is fine though if you simply want to get a gun and get started, just passing along what I went through with both my sons.

The 870 youth isn't the best choice in my mind though for someone this young for a couple reasons. First is that the recoil will be greater then the 1100 or 11-87. Second is for an average sized 9 or 10 year old they have to put their forward hand a bit too far forward to reach the forearm on the pump gun. With the auto their hand can be a couple inches farther back towards the reciever which is a more natural position for them.

As the kids got bigger I would first add a slip on recoil pad to get a bit longer Length of pull then finally when they were ready I simply bought them a new 1100 LT 20ga of their own. Both my boys did well with this process and are both active skeet shooters and hunters now.

 

Great info & advice, I really appreciate all of the help! You all have some great feedback on a variety of manufacturers. Some of you mentioned the Beretta, I didn't give them much thought because they were more than my budget, but I wouldn't object to a used one in good shape.
I like the one Beretta (3901 Target RL) from High Grade Shooting supply, a little more than my budget, but only by $99 and it's new. I'll be checking to see if it comes in a 20.

But Remington is certainly not out of the picture. One question I have is that many of you believe the 1187 Sportsman youth can accept different chokes. I guess when I was on their site it sounded to me that it couldn't. No doubt a rookie mistake on my part, I read too much into the 'fitted with a Modified Rem choke'. I have e-mailed Remington with this question but it's been three weeks and I still haven't heard anything.
Since reading your posts I have also considered what a few of you have stated - purchase a standard sized shotgun & find a second hand stock and have it cut down. I'm not sure what this would do to my budget, but It sounds like it could grow with the kids. I didn't think of that before, and going through Remington's website I really like the Upland Special. Looking at it's dimensions it could easily become a youth friendly shotgun if it wasn't for its LOP.
I'll be taking the boys out this weekend to check out some of the local shops, and will make a purchase in the next few weeks, I'll be sure to post our selection.

Thanks again for your expertise and kindness!

Rich

 

If your 14 year old is five feet tall, an 1100 or 11-87 is going to be too long and too heavy for the younger shooters. Their left arms (assumunig right handed shooters) will run out of steam well before recoil tires them. Personally I stay off the trap field when youngsters show up with semi-autos. It is too hard to be sure when the gun is "safe". At least with a pump gun there is some visible assurance that the bolt is back from any angle. My boys started trap at 9 and 12 shooting hammerless Baikal single shots--.410 and 12 gauge. These are sold by Remington now. The younger, now 11, does his own re-loading and shoots 12 gauge O/U and still brings his .410 for fun. I suggest you get all three on the trap line together with guns that are easy to manage for all. That would be a sporting .410 single shot, hammerless with vented rib, sort of like a kid's BT-99. Click here:
http://www.impactguns.com/store/047700897660.html
Then you'll need the 12 gauge version of the same gun for the 10 year old and finally a nice 870 TC for the oldest. You can buy all three for about what you budgeted for just the euro-auto. This assumes that you can find a nice used trap grade 870 (not a problem). That Wingmaster will likely have fancy wood and will be handed down in years to come. If you go the semi-auto route, what are the two non-shooters going to be doing while the third is shooting the semi-auto? The rest of you can spare me the lecture on how .410 is an expert's gun. The truth is that a break open .410 is a light, low recoil firearm that is perfectly suited for the 60-100 lb. shooter. I couldn't agree more that a single shot--in any gauge--with an external hammer is a bad choice for a young beginner.

 

Question:
On the Remington Website the only official youth auto is the 11-87 Sportsman Youth. People talk about this LT 20 also. Is it a youth gun? I cannot find its specs other than price on the website. It is an 11-87 Premier LT 20. What does the LT mean? Anyone have the specs?
Thanks,
Gary

 

If your 14 year old is five feet tall, an 1100 or 11-87 is going to be too long and too heavy for the younger shooters. Their left arms (assumunig right handed shooters) will run out of steam well before recoil tires them. Personally I stay off the trap field when youngsters show up with semi-autos. It is too hard to be sure when the gun is "safe".

I should have stay home and got into drugs if I didn't shoot an A5 Magnum w/32" when I was 14 years old and not won any money shoot either. Maybe we shouldn't have Junior Shotgun Olympics either if they shoot semi-autos.
Just remember that every person is different and their abilities regardless of age or stature.

Rich in PA,
Good luck and let us know what you decide on

 

J Beede et al,

FWIW my 11 year old daughter shoots a full size 1100 LT 20, she is just at 5 feet and the 28" barrelled gun fits her fine.

LT is Remington's most recent designator for light, or in this case small frame.

Two daughters and my wife have gone the 1100 LT20 route.

All three are consistently annoyed by closed O/U actions and thier colorful owners careless muzzle handling. They just cannot seem to get over closed O/Us resting on toe tabs as an example of safe gun handling. The action of the gun does not make safe gun handling....

We also have a new 11-87 which is 1/2 inch shorter in LOP and I am going to have to lengthen it to match the LT 1100 just to keep everyone happy and shooting.

1100 Youth Synthetic with a fixed Skeet 26 inch barrel which has proven to the "starter gun of chooice" for 1/2 a dozen new to shotguns and new to skeet shooters. LOP is conveniently lengthend with a Limbsaver slip on pad.

One more: how's that single barrel Biakal work on Skeet Doubles?

 

LT-20 Youth

No longer made by Remington to my knowledge.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... m=43507431

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... m=43400485

When they grow longer arms and such, a regular stock for an LT-20 will fit. A gun to grow with.

 

But Remington is certainly not out of the picture. One question I have is that many of you believe the 1187 Sportsman youth can accept different chokes. I guess when I was on their site it sounded to me that it couldn't. No doubt a rookie mistake on my part, I read too much into the 'fitted with a Modified Rem choke'. I have e-mailed Remington with this question but it's been three weeks and I still haven't heard anything.
Since reading your posts I have also considered what a few of you have stated - purchase a standard sized shotgun & find a second hand stock and have it cut down. I'm not sure what this would do to my budget, but It sounds like it could grow with the kids. I didn't think of that before, and going through Remington's website I really like the Upland Special. Looking at it's dimensions it could easily become a youth friendly shotgun if it wasn't for its LOP.

The "Fitted with a Modified Rem-choke" statement means that the the gun is made to accept Remington's interchangeable chokes which they call "Rem-Choke" but only includes the Modified choke. You will be able to buy other Rem-Chokes and install them.

If it were me I'd stay away from the straight grip stocked Upland Special, a pistol grip is probably better for your situation. Also the Upland Special has a very short barrel. I have an 870 Upland Special myself and it's a nice gun, just not the best for your purposes I don't think.

An extra 20ga stock for a Remington 1100 LT 20ga or a 20ga 11-87 (a stock that will fit one will fit the other) should cost you $15-$30 used, you can find them on e-bay pretty often. Or if you prefer a new one you can find one for $90 at the most and possibly quite less.

 

If your 14 year old is five feet tall, an 1100 or 11-87 is going to be too long and too heavy for the younger shooters. Their left arms (assumunig right handed shooters) will run out of steam well before recoil tires them.

From the amount of working with new shooters that I've done I've found that if someones front hand is wearing out quickly it's probably because they aren't holding the gun properly and getting into a good stance. New shooters tend to try to hold most of the weight of the gun with their front hand as they lean back at the waist to try to help get the front of the gun up. They may also have the front hand a bit too far forward as well which can compound the problem. The gun needs to be supported with both hands. The shooter needs to lean a bit forward at the waist to give them a good range of motion and obsorbe recoil. I've found that a small shooter needs to have a more aggresive stance then a bigger shooter. The smaller shooter needs to have a bit more weight on the front foot and needs to open up their stance just a little bit by moving the back foot back and inline with the gun by a couple inches. Not a lot but a little. As a shooter gets bigger they will be able to close their stance a little at a time to the more clasic shooting position.

With the gun unloaded and pointed in a safe direction have the youngster hold the gun up in a proper shooting position pointing at a spot out in front of them. They should be able to hold the gun an inch or two away from their shoulder like this. This will teach them to hold the gun with both hands.

Now have them mount the gun again as before but now with the gun in the proper shoulder pocket. To help them feel the correct stance stand beside them and push the gun staight back into their shoulder, not hard just put a few pounds of pressure back into them. They will have to get in a slightly aggresive stance in order to push back with their whole body and keep from leaning back.

This is all easier to show then it is to write about.

 

John3200,
You make a good point that proper instruction is needed when introducing a new shooter to the sport. Very well written.
thanks