"Ponsness" .... if you are going to bash something, might as well get the company name right.

What are you calling "new hulls" - once fired? Or actually never loaded unfired hulls? Unfired hulls often need skiving (thinning the hull mouth) to accept a good crimp.

What's your experience with loaders? Is this PW 375 your first one?

Mine has earned a one way ticket to the dump.

After reading years of new reloaders having difficulties with their new loader and their first attempts to load - with almost all of those situations resolved after the loader learned the ropes, perhaps by consulting with others here - your post seems filled with feelings of failure. Very few ever tossed out a machine - but some have traded off a particular loader for something simpler.

So, my suggestions is to post some pics of, say, your 12 gauge loading problems and include the recipe you are using. Betcha someone here will be able to steer you back onto a successful recovery (or discovery) of your reloading technique.

Shotshell loading is part patience, part insight, and lots of reading of instructions and manuals. No one has had a perfectly successful, no-mistake learning curve on any shotshell loader.

Switching to another brand? Just a different set of mistakes waiting to be made until you master the ability to troubleshoot and correct your own loading errors.

good luck, garrisonjoe

 

"Ponsness" .... if you are going to bash something, might as well get the company name right. - Touché'! (Corrected)

To clarify by new I mean unfired and I am a newbie. It could be error in technique but I am confident the equipment is making the task impossible. Right off I thought if I could sharpen the fins on the pre-crimp it would work. All my attemps since have only strengthened this belief.

I'm at the point I just have to know if a MEC with a super crown will make the difference. If not, I will admit I totally underestimated the skill and knowledge required to load a shotshell in a new hull.

 

There is no need to sharpen anything. Throw that one in the trash. The super crown is no better. Is the PW new or used? If used it may have a mixture of the wrong parts(dies) installed. Post some pictures.

 

Something is not setup correctly. I will admit, I’ve never started with a new, uncrimped hull, but I’ve done many once fired hulls with little to no issue. The smaller the hull, the more exact you need to be. I load 28,20, and 12 on mine.
For a once fired hull, the easiest way to set the pre- crimp, and final crimp is with a new, unfired shell.
Mount your machine 4” from the edge of the bench, as per direction, and the bench front edge acts as a mechanical stop. You want the machine to stop stroking at the top of the stroke, just before all the links and levers straighten out. It may take a shim on the bench edge to achieve this, or move the machine back a little more from the bench edge.
With a new, unfired,shell, place it in the shell resizer holder, and position it below the pre- crimp die. Lower the die, and adjust it so that with the handle down, stopped by the bench, the fins of the die are just barely making contact with the outside circumference of the shell.
To set the final crimp you will a depth gauge, or the tail end of a micrometer.
Measure the depth of crimp on a new unfired shell. Rotate the shell in the holder to the final crimp position. Back off the final crimp, and while lowering the handle, make small adjustments to the final crimper. After each adjustment, measure the depth of crimp. At the point that the depth of crimp is now more, indicating the final crimp is in play, back it off until you get the crimp depth you need. Remember, your bench front edge is your mechanical stop. Once these adjustments are made, they cannot change.
Now reload a once fired hull, and check your pre-crimp, and final crimp, stations looking for a nice crimp. A swirl means the pre crimp is extending too far, a hole in the cente, and it’s not extending far enough. If your crimp depth is good, you’re all set. If it measure wrong correct the die.
Look at the edges of the shell after the final crimp. Any small creases indicates too much spring pressure, and it may need to be backed off per your instruction manual.
All of this literally takes maybe 15 minutes tops. Once you’ve done it a few times, it takes 5 minutes.
You have a good machine. Millions of shells over the past 50 years have been made on 375’s. Once setup, they’re little brutes.
Cycling between hull manufacturers, requires that machine setup be checked, and possibly adjusted again. That will be true of any Reloader.
Hopefully someone can help you with making a crimp on a new hull.

 

. Mine has earned a one way ticket to the dump

The dump is at my house, I will pay for shipping.

Steve

 

Open to any suggestions

and I am a newbie.

. Been trying to get good crimps on 410, 12 and 10 gauges

IMO you are attempting to do too many things right now. Master one before moving on. Leave the new unfired 10 gauge to last as getting them to skive the first time is an art unto itself.

Steve

 

Rather than dump a whole reloading setup, you need to find the appropriate GAEP or OMV crimp starters for the gauges you are loading. I believe BPI sells all of them. These dies are designed for new hulls.

I think @RGuill96971 might have some tips for attaching one to your 375. Or just hook it up to a drill press and crimp the hulls empty before loading them through your press. The hull mouth will open back up, you are just doing it to set the folds and establish at least some crimp memory. They will come out looking better that way.

 

The P/W plastic crimp starter is not the best tool in the shed. I have tried adapting a MEC crimp starter to a P/W but the tall shell holders interfere. The best P/W crimp starter is the all metal one with the wire alignment thing.

 

I would agree 90% of the time. I have had hulls that like the plastic one also, but new hulls the metal is the only way to go.

 

Please send it to me. I will pay shipping. If you are doing new hulls, it is best to use either the metal PW pre crimp or get a Gaep precrimp head. Then it has to be adjusted correctly. Print out the adjustment page from PW. Make very small adjustment to pre crimp until it is correct. Do you know what is correct? When the pre crimp is correct then move to final crimp. My PW 375 makes better than factory looking crimps and don't care what hull it is.

There is some difference in pre crimping new hulls that are skived vs ones that are not but can be done with a little time and patience.

 

Follow what he is saying above. 1 gauge at a time. That press will crimp shells that look better than new, mine did. I think your making to big of a adjustment. If your mashing the shell, your definitely not adjusted correctly. Another thing is, are you using the correct wads ?

 

It is 99.9% certain that the errors come from not tuning and running the reloading equipment properly.

First, focus on JUST ONE GAUGE AND ONE HULL AND ONE RECIPE to learn with. Changing any one of these three things usually means the loader has to be re-tuned to make a good shell. Even loading different types of a Winchester hull (there's about 3) or different types of a Federal hull (there's about 5). Simplest hull to learn to load - probably a 12 gauge Remington Gun Club that you can find discarded in the hull bins at any shotgun range. Very easy to get components for that too! Lots of good recipes, too.

Second, post up what recipe you are loading, the one type of hull you chose to load, and some pictures from the reloading process of some of your OOPS situations. Folks can then give you advice on what to do to make it right. A picture of the shell on the machine helps. A picture looking down in the hull after you add the powder, the wad, and then the top of the shot before you crimp will be really useful. Then pictures of the pre-crimp, the main crimp and the final crimp. Yes, this may mean you have to figure out how to take shells off your loader at every station (and replace them too). That's a handy skill to learn too.

If the shot level does not come up to within 1/2" to 1/4" from the tip of the shell mouth BEFORE you apply crimp starting folds, you have "stack height" problems and you will not be able to make a nice crimp until you figure that out. Folks here have the experience to tell you in a few minutes what probably needs to be fixed, where you on your own will spend and hour or two fixing each thing that you think is wrong.

Have you read through the really valuable FAQ post at the top of this forum about how to get started as a new reloader? If not :

New Reloaders - Make it Easy on Yourself

Its a little painful learning to load shotshells, but this is not like unboxing a new coffee maker and making a cup. There's a lot to learn on any shotshell reloader!

Use your eyes rather than your words. Be patient and you will almost certainly conquer the learning curve! garrisonjoe

 

I've come to the conclusions the Ponsness Warren 375 is overpriced and way overrated. Mine has earned a one way ticket to the dump. Been trying to get good crimps on 410, 12 and 10 gauges (all new tooling) and it has been nothing short of a nightmare!

First off you need this when loading new hulls. I switched to the metal crimp starter when I started loading 16ga cheddites and it fixed the problem

Secondly, you need to learn how to setup the press before giving up. The 375 is far better than any MEC and once your set it stays that way…..unlike MECs

 

First off you need this when loading new hulls. I switched to the metal crimp starter when I started loading 16ga cheddites and it fixed the problem

View attachment 123289



Secondly, you need to learn how to setup the press before giving up. The 375 is far better than any MEC and once your set it stays that way…..unlike MECs

This gentlemen is the proper way to load new shell in a PW machine !

 

The wire crimp starter is the way to go. Adjustment must be done at the starter crimp for each tool set to make them look good. I run four 375's without any issues, when I do short 10ga hulls skiving is a must.

 

I will gladly relieve you of that POS reloader. Send it to me and I'll pay the shipping.

Then you can go get a MEC which is in my opinion like dumping a Cadillac to get a Chevette!

 

Thank you everyone who posted helpful information! To be clear all precrimp tools used are the metal ones, like mms posted. My 410 and 10 gauge tooling were purchased new. My press and 12 ga tooling I purchased used but did buy the new taper crimp from PW.

I am away at training for the week but will follow everyone's tips and post some photos when I get home and have some time. I have read through the owners manual, FAQs here and watched many videos. I will hold off on the MEC and resist scrapping the press. I will follow advise by concentrating solely on the 10 gauge with the new hulls going forward. This is mainly what I shoot and have components for.

I feel confident I could get once fired hulls to load after more blood and tears as I was able to get the few once fired 10ga hulls I had done acceptability.

Side note on stack height. Every 12 ga I tried was with tss shot. I got lots of load data from the seller of the shot. I remember now I suspected his data was wrong as from what I had read it seemed to not be stacking high enough. I did take a random lead load from a manual and it crimped fine.

Still left with the feeling I am not adequately equipted for loading new hulls. Hope I am wrong. Love to try the GAEP crimp starter but it's out of stock.

Thanks again

 

If interested send me a PM. I have the contact info for guy that makes the gaep. He is in Italy. Shipping will be more but I promise he is not out of stock.

 

Those new Federal 10 ga hulls are very stiff plastic, and hard to get a good crimp. I use a Geap tool to finish the crimp or I get the end off the shell catching the cut out for the extractor at the beginning of chamber. Have no issues with once fired hulls, but still use the Gaep tool for an auto.

 

I have used a Mec Sizemaster for 10ga loads with a lot of success. I shoot tens of thousands of reloads in smaller gauges, but do not need a progressive press for hunting loads. Those 10ga hulls are very expensive. You might think about a Sizemaster just for the 10ga. The P-W press is pretty, but does not make better reloads than a Mec.

 

Hmmm.

From post 18

Every 12 ga I tried was with tss shot. I got lots of load data from the seller of the shot. I remember now I suspected his data was wrong as from what I had read it seemed to not be stacking high enough. I did take a random lead load from a manual and it crimped fine.

Well, you are real careless with your problem descriptions and diagnosis. If you say "every 12 ga (load) with TSS shot" crimped badly due to short stack height, and then say a published manual lead shot load turned out fine, that tells you the load data for TSS is crummy, not that your machine is messed up. You really CAN load a good recipe on that machine. You have to understand not every load recipe you find will work.

I have had so many loads over the years which were poor recipes that now when I try a new load, I "hand stack" one hull with a dead primer, weighed powder, wad seated by hand to touch the powder (using a wood dowel), and weighed shot. If the shot level does not come up to the fold over point that a factory load uses (at the lower spot on the hull where the petals form), or slightly higher, I know the recipe is never going to load well without very severe adjustment of machine settings. I look for a different recipe! Such a tactic would serve you well, too.

And you trusted a fellow who other shooters have said does not provide good loading data for TSS shot. Well, that's wishful hoping, rather than thinking about what bad things can happen to your loading attempts. Don't make it hard on yourself. Find better data. Even ask here for help with non-toxic loads!

good luck, garrisonjoe

 

Hmmm.

From post 18


Well, you are real careless with your problem descriptions and diagnosis. If you say "every 12 ga (load) with TSS shot" crimped badly due to short stack height, and then say a published manual lead shot load turned out fine, that tells you the load data for TSS is crummy, not that your machine is messed up. You really CAN load a good recipe on that machine. You have to understand not every load recipe you find will work.

I have had so many loads over the years which were poor recipes that now when I try a new load, I "hand stack" one hull with a dead primer, weighed powder, wad seated by hand to touch the powder (using a wood dowel), and weighed shot. If the shot level does not come up to the fold over point that a factory load uses (at the lower spot on the hull where the petals form), or slightly higher, I know the recipe is never going to load well without very severe adjustment of machine settings. I look for a different recipe! Such a tactic would serve you well, too.

And you trusted a fellow who other shooters have said does not provide good loading data for TSS shot. Well, that's wishful hoping, rather than thinking about what bad things can happen to your loading attempts. Don't make it hard on yourself. Find better data. Even ask here for help with non-toxic loads!

good luck, garrisonjoe

My apologies, I remembered the lead load after my post. The load data I got was from someone who many seem to be big fans of.

 

Please forgive some of the people here for being a little hard edged. Some are downright rude. Everyone here was once new to reloading and every single one of them had issues with presses from time to time. Again, progressive presses are great for high volume target loads, a Sizemaster might be best for hunting loads. I think there are a lot more people who are good at adjusting a Mec press, the moderator here Steve is one of the very best. By the way, I agree with you that the PW is over priced.

 

Much appreciated PA. I appreciate everyone's insight regardless of delivery. I'm the type who is usually hardest on himself anyway.

 

I think the Sizemaster is overpriced. They are $450 new which is almost 375 money. The collet resizer is way overrated IMO, I used one for .410 and I could not tell the difference. The auto primer drop is nice I guess so long as it’s working right (and it’s not available in .410).

So really just a gussied up 600jr for nearly the price of a 375. Would much rather have a 375 at that money.

 

I think the Sizemaster is overpriced. They are $450 new which is almost 375 money. The collet resizer is way overrated IMO, I used one for .410 and I could not tell the difference. The auto primer drop is nice I guess so long as it’s working right (and it’s not available in .410).

So really just a gussied up 600jr for nearly the price of a 375. Would much rather have a 375 at that money.

$388 at Midway.

 

there is a great Ponsness group on Facebook that helps people all the time.. check them out.. I am sure people here can also help.

 

I use the 375 for .410 it makes great rounds.. I don't use new hulls though.. I just buy AA's, shoot them in matches and reload the hulls..

 

Joe, I am using the correct wads. I will follow advise.

Tom, I have not called them. I thought about it, just couldn't.

 

A question to anyone (and perhaps I should have started with it);

Has anyone actually used the PW 375 for 10 gauge using new hulls??

 

I have, but in very small numbers. Some new Remington hulls which had very dished crimps because most 10 ga recipes don’t seem to stack high enough. So I had to use an overshot card and some filler. The crimps weren’t “mangled” though, just dished.

 

One thing about stack height, you must use a "filler" or it will adversely affect your crimp. I am partial to DRY NAVY BEANS from the grocery store. They are hard and dry, I wouldnt think "cereal" as some promote would work as well.

 

Well I hit another roadblock. Did some pattern testing today and was reminded the SP-10 doesn't play well with Federal hulls. They stove pipe consistently. So I decided to concentrate on the Winchester hulls from the factory ammo I had just shot. The sizing die is too long to allow a deep enough crimp 🤷‍♂️. I briefly considered cutting the sizing die but thought better of it!

I'm afraid reloading 10 gauge on the PW is not going to happen anytime soon unless I can modify my shotgun to digest Federals!

 

first try adjusting your pre crimp. If that doesn't work you will need the tapered crimp kit.. how old is your press? the new models all come with the kit.. otherwise it's around 225 dollars. not hard to install fixes everything.