Your better off going with data from Alliant than BPI anyway, double check the load with data from Alliant. I know there are published loads with certain components that don't fit, so don't get in the mindset there can be only one and try another.

 

Bismuth takes up more volume then lead, so they can be tricky to crimp. I roll crimp with an overshot card if I have to (easy to do, and looks real cool!), or change wads and recipe. Here's another tested load -

12GA.
Win AA or HS hull
Win 209 primer (or Cheddite)
16 grn IMR 700-X
1 oz. Bismuth
1,220 FPS 9,800PSI

Don.

 

Thanks Don, but I have not had good results with the 1 oz load. How does that load perform in the field?

The 1-1/4 oz load I posted looks real good on paper. I can't wait to try it out in the field.

 

Sometimes i start with a bpi published load but i never trust them 100%. i usually back the powder off 2-4 grains and get pressures where i want them. i would trust the powder co. published recipes a lot more. i load buckshot and turkey loads so i look for tight patterns so that means you are fooling with loads that are in the upper psi range. if i was looking for dove loads it wouldn't be a problem most of the time. i checked a bpi recipe and the psi was 11400 psi published so i loaded it up exactly and i came up with 12245 psi. i also checked a load from a guy who sells turkey loads that shoot awesome but the shells are 6.50 each and it was a 3 1/2" shell and the pressure was 14480 psi ( now thats cutting it close).

 

How much wad pressure are you using to seat the wad over the steel powder??

Overall length on the CSD078 is very similiar to the WAA12 wad. Mind you one has a larger cup capacity, but you still have the ability to collapse the legs. Now alliant has load data for a lee 1 oz slug in a waa12 wad and its ontop of 49 grains of bluedot in a sts hull. Some how 30 grains of steel in a AA hull does not seem impossible relatively speaking. I may have to go try it as I have some steel powder and a bunch of CSD100 wads floating around.

 

I've had great success with 1oz. loads in my 16 ga. sxs on ducks. Time at the range, pellet size and choke, has much more to do with success then bigger loads and bigger guns, IMHO. With the price of Bismuth, getting 25% more shells per pound, is also is a good benefit.

These three were taken on my first hunt this year using #5 Bithmuth from a mod choke. The only three I shot at, no cripples.

http://s984.photobucket.com/albums/ae325/Dolapsch/zoli and ducks/

Don.

 

How much wad pressure are you using to seat the wad over the steel powder??

Overall length on the CSD078 is very similiar to the WAA12 wad. Mind you one has a larger cup capacity, but you still have the ability to collapse the legs. Now alliant has load data for a lee 1 oz slug in a waa12 wad and its ontop of 49 grains of bluedot in a sts hull. Some how 30 grains of steel in a AA hull does not seem impossible relatively speaking. I may have to go try it as I have some steel powder and a bunch of CSD100 wads floating around.

I am just using enough pressure to seat the wad on top of the powder. Problem is, I can't even get the wad far enough in the hull to reach the powder. Could this be because the AA hull is tapered? Please let me know if you can seat the CSD wad in the AA hull.

The CSD wads deliver a great pattern with Bismuth. The 1-1/4 oz load in the Fiocchi hull and the CSD wad put over 80% of the shot in a 30" circle at 35 yards. The same payload in a AA hull with a WAA12 wad only delivered about 70%.

"With the price of Bismuth, getting 25% more shells per pound, is also is a good benefit."

Yes Sir, That's the goal. Thanks for all the input.

 

How much wad pressure are you using to seat the wad over the steel powder??

Overall length on the CSD078 is very similiar to the WAA12 wad. Mind you one has a larger cup capacity, but you still have the ability to collapse the legs. Now alliant has load data for a lee 1 oz slug in a waa12 wad and its ontop of 49 grains of bluedot in a sts hull. Some how 30 grains of steel in a AA hull does not seem impossible relatively speaking. I may have to go try it as I have some steel powder and a bunch of CSD100 wads floating around.

I am just using enough pressure to seat the wad on top of the powder. Problem is, I can't even get the wad far enough in the hull to reach the powder. Could this be because the AA hull is tapered? Please let me know if you can seat the CSD wad in the AA hull.

The CSD wads deliver a great pattern with Bismuth. The 1-1/4 oz load in the Fiocchi hull and the CSD wad put over 80% of the shot in a 30" circle at 35 yards. The same payload in a AA hull with a WAA12 wad only delivered about 70%.

"With the price of Bismuth, getting 25% more shells per pound, is also is a good benefit."

Yes Sir, That's the goal. Thanks for all the input.

Okay, I used the CSD100 wad (same length as the CSD078 but with a shorter cushion section). I also used a Winchester Universal Hull. Dimensionally similiar to the newer AAHS hulls. With 30 grs of Alliant Steel by weight, I was able to compress the wad column to get it to a crimpable length. I used considerable wad pressure. If I was to load alot of this load, I would place the wad in the reprime station to fully collapse the cushion section prior to placing it in the hull.

Edit: If you have any federal top gun hulls, you can use them in the load data for federal field hulls. Pretty cheap to get ahold of, as in free from most ranges. Fit much better like the fio hulls.

 

Sounds like the problem is with the loader and not the data. It just didn't feel right with that much pressure on the wad so I backed off. Thanks for the update.

 

I'm fairly new to reloading and have ended up with four types of powders, two different hull manufactures, three different wads, # 6 lead, #71/2 lead and #2, #5 and BB bismuth. I have loaded 1 oz, 7/8oz and spreader loads, fold crimped and roll crimped. And that's only in 16ga. I'll start loading 12ga. soon, same theories will apply.

My 7/8 oz. lead range loads need a cheerio on top to eliminate any dishing. My #5 bismuth fold crimps well, until I loaded # 2's, then had to go to a roll crimp due to the extra volume.

My point? I takes a while to find TESTED recipes that work, meaning, not having to crush or squeeze in components to get a good crimp of any kind.

Win AA hulls are tapered, so only certain hulls will fit. Lymans 5th. and powder companies have bismuth recipes. I'd follow those if you can. I'm sure you know, using the wrong wad can hurt you, or the guy next to you.

Only make a few loads and pattern them. You may want to open your patterns up a bit and up your odds.

Hope this helped.

Don.

 

Thanks for the great advice Don. I am doing just what you stated. I used to load lead for all my waterfowl loads then went to Bismuth factory ammo. Now that it is no longer available, I am back to reloading and experimenting with all the data for Bismuth that's out there.

I have found that the CSD wads pattern very well in my mod choke. Better than the WAA12 and RP12 and that the 1-1/4 oz. in shot size 4, 5 & 6, non-buffered loads perform great in the field on ducks. If I can get the same performance out of a 1-1/8 oz load, I would be very happy.

I don't like the idea of using a pile driver to seat the wad. I see what BPI has to say about it.

 

When my bismuth runs out, I may go to Nice shot. My grouse mentor used it with great success on geese, and I hear it loads 'pretty much' like lead(?).

I have access to 14lbs of bismuth bb's, but I'm not sure if I want to buy it. I can get it at around $120/7lb jug.

Don.

 

Looks like I need to get me some wad slick to solve my problem. The AA hull gets a little rough imside after it has been fired and it looks like the wad is hanging up going in. I have read mixed reviews on Mica but I am going to give it a try. It should do the trick.