Old school uses brass scoops. Less static risk.
Touché though!

 

You just MIGHT want to check the chamber length on that old SXS. Most were made with 2 1/2 or 2 9/16" chambers. I cut a lot of shells down to properly fit mine.

Also, I use a brass powder measure for the reasons stated.

They are fun to load and shoot in an old hammer SXS. Mine, being cylinder bored, works well for skeet.

 

The LC Smiths in 12 gauge all had 2 3/4" chambers and the majority of the rest of them (Parker, Fox, Ithaca, Lefever) came with chambers intentionally left 1/8" short, but intended to shoot 2 3/4" shells.

All the reloading press manufacturers think about static electricity, which in theory could ignite smokeless powder, although black would be more prone to detonate. Don't reload black over carpet, or in extremely dry climates, where static electricity is more likely to form. Better yet, I say load only a quarter of a pound at a time.

For single loading with a muzzleloader by all means use a brass measure and never load directly from the flask.

Also, don't leave black in the hopper, and keep shells and powder stored in a temperate and humidity controlled room. Black powder draws water, which is why the stuff rusts your gun so quickly.

Using 777 or Pyrodex helps with clean up, and those powders are safer, in theory.

But they don't work as well as black powder. A properly loaded 3 dram black powder load is a joy to shoot, performs on a par with modern shells, and sends lots of belching smoke and fire out the barrels. Watch out not to ignite dry grass.

Another trick is to carry a spray bottle of 1/3 90% rubbing alcohol, 1/3 hydrogen peroxide, and 1/3 Murphy's Oil Soap and spray the inside of the barrels during rounds. This greatly softens fouling and cools the barrels.

 

Black powder heats up barrels fast, too! I found that out quickly when shooting skeet, so I wore a leather glove on my left hand.

 

Good thread. I've been shooting BP for over 45 years. You forgot to mention it usually takes more then one cushion wad - a second 1/2" wad will be cut and added to adjust the total height for a good crimp. I use a Mec 600 with a 1oz charge bar, and a 46 bushing for about 70grs of 3F. A 46 bushing cut in half will throw about 82grs. Second, BP doesn't create rust so fast it can't be shot in a good SxS. I have over ten SxS's, some of them quite valuable, and BP at times gets shot in all of them. I just make sure to clean them at the end of the day. Paul

 

I was hoping you would post a photo of the shotgun firing a black powder load, the smoke cloud is impressive.--Nick

 

It's true that usually I've had to use two half inch fiber wads, but those were the soft kind that I use for soaking in a solution of 1/3 alcohol, 1/3 peroxide, and 1/3 Murphy's Oil Soap when I load muzzle loading black powder. You'd not soak them for loading shells, of course.

But these hard card fiber wads with slick black ends are available from Ballistic Products, Inc, and using the Herter's straight walled case it takes 82 grains FFG, a Ballsitics Products .125 Maxi Nitro card wad (500 to the bag), their half inch hard card fiber wads (200 to a bag) and close to 1 1/8 #7 1/2 shot with 50 pounds wad pressure on the wads for a perfect six point crimp.

We shot a bunch of these today and had a ball.

I'll take some pictures next time.

Some friends gave me 125 Herter's hulls with boxes, but most of the ones I shot black powder from look like they could be used again.

A few burned a hole in the side of the hull.

No need to get greedy. Load them once and pitch them all.

As for shooting them in really nice guns, everybody that had a really nice gun used to do that until smokeless came out and got really established about the time of World War One.

Which may account for the usually sorry state of condition one generally finds a Damascus barreled shotgun from the black powder heyday.

If and only if you clean them once very well and then several times later on--they rust.

Be careful or cry later.

What I can't understand is why didn't all the Model 97 Winchesters and especially early Auto Fives didn't just rust away to nothing when shot with black powder. There is no way those old timers took every part down on one of those and cleaned them with boiling hot soapy water. The barrel maybe, but not the rest of the gun.

Maybe that's why you don't see many from the black powder era that survived.

Black powder is dirty, nasty stuff,,,,then and now.

 

For a quick clean-up when using old hammer SXSs, I give my gun a quick bore cleaning with a patch and rubbing alcohol. Upon returning home, I remove the barrels, then the ejectors (1 screw holds them in place), and stick a garden hose with appropriate nozzle in the chambers and give the bores a good flushing. I then dry the bore with paper towels, and make sure it is well dried, inside and out.I then replace the ejectors, give the exteriors a good wipe-down with a damp cloth and dry with paper towels, then light coat of oil on everything. Quick and easy, and it works.

Incidentally, range pickups of any brand of shells works. Plastic hulls only last one or two firings before developing pin holes.

Additionally, I use Circle-Fly wads. Cheap, efficient, and they make them in more gauges and sizes than you think existed!

 

I like to load my BP in Federal Paper shells with 1/2 inch fiber on top of over powder wad. I find with paper they seal the chamber in my 97'pump and no residue in action. Also I know I won't mix them with my smokeless which are all plastic. I have developed,some good loads at 1150 to 1200 fpsand shoot skeet and CAS knock downs with good success.

I got some pics of shooting skeet at night I'll post later. Below video of a local SASS match with BP loads. Enjoy

 

As I said before, I've never had a problem with rust and I shoot some SxS's worth more than 5K. Also, BP is measured by volume so a scale isn't necessary. Most guys use a measure meant for loading BP and use a equal amount of powder to shot. Originals can be found at gun shows or plastic ones from BPI. I normally use 1oz of shot in the 12ga so more wads are necessary. There's three SxS shoots in Michigan every year, and a group of us from my club shoot just BP at them. It's a challenge on the second bird in SC's to even see it - same with skeet on doubles, but it's about the most fun you can have with your pants on.

 

... Another trick is to carry a spray bottle of 1/3 90% rubbing alcohol, 1/3 hydrogen peroxide, and 1/3 Murphy's Oil Soap and spray the inside of the barrels during rounds. This greatly softens fouling and cools the barrels.

Thanks for the idea. What form of Murphy's, concentrated or water diluted? Might add an old bore-snake to the mix too.

Bruce

 

I mixed up a bunch of the black powder solvent a couple of years ago and forgot exactly which type of Murphy's oil soap I used. I demeans the Murphy's bottle had a spray top lid, though.

There are two strengths of rubbing alcohol. I used the strongest nintysome percent strength, and the highest concentration of hydrogen peroxide that Walgreens sold, as well.

I don't know it'll it matters. But the 1/3 each of Murphy's oil soap, rubbing alcohol, and hydrogen peroxide does work well for softening black powder fouling.

Put it up in a quart sized plastic spray bottle.

Spray directly down the barrels several times during a round.

It's good for soaking Circle Fly soft fiber wads before loading muzzle loading black powder shotguns. As said earlier, start out using equal measure of black powder and shot in a brass measure. Experiment. Muzzle loader shotguns were and are pretty finicky about the loads they like. Anywhere from 7/8 ounces of shot to 1 1/4 ounces of shot and 2 3/4 drams to 3 3/4 drams of FFG were used by the old timers in 12 gauge guns. 1 1/4 oz of shot over 3 1/4 drams of black powder was the standard live pigeon load for twelve gauge. The standard target load was three drams of FFG under 1 1 1/8 ounces shot, which is an equal measure load. It's also what I shoot in black powder shell reloading.

For muzzleloader you will need over shot wads, and also for shells if you roll crimp.

A leather glove for your off hand is a good idea too, as was mentioned. Black powder burns a lot hotter than smokeless.

Contrary to popular belief, a three dram 1 1/8 ounce black powder load runs exactly the same 1200 feet per second as the modern 3 dram equivalent 1 1/8 ounce smokeless loads. That's why the box says 3 dram equivalent. It's suprising how many people think you should increase lead for black powder.

Actually Fred Kimble and his buddies were using guns in every way as effective as ours, only they belched smoke.

Kimble shot only 1 1/4 ounce of #3 shot from a six gauge single barrel. It would shoot through pine boards at forty yards.

http://www.traphof.org/People-Stories/fred-kimble.html

And he'd kill as many as two hundred geese and ducks a day for market.

 

Shooting black powder is a treat.

One of these days, I need to figure out how to load my flintlock Brown Bess replica with a shot load to try at the trap club for grins.

Not my gun, but a friend was kind enough to let me take a shot with his 4 gauge. Certainly a bit different than my Citori!

 

Great stuff. I basically use hot water and soap as clean up as I use fiber wads. My shooting buddy loads plastic casings with plastic wads. If you want any more information you can PM me.

To clean he first plugs the front end of the barrels on his double with paper towels. He then sprays Windex with Ammonia (clear liquid) in each barrel from the back end and then plugs that end with paper towels. He then cleans the receiver with some Ballistol soaked patches. Then he takes a rod and jag with a patch soaked in Ballistol and then pushes it through the barrels. This method immediately removes all of the plastic and black powder residue. It comes out in one shot looking pretty bad. He calls it "snot".

Two more videos.

The first some shooting at night with 12 ga model 97 winchester with BP loads in Federal Paper Hulls. These loads perform the same as regular smokeless loads like AA Winchester or Remington Gun Clubs as far as velocity and pattern. The recoil is much lighter.

Second is my friend shooting a 14 shot stage with his double and BP plastic loads. You can hear him comment near the end on how hot the shotgun is getting.

 

I shoot BP in CAS SASS shooting. Have for over 22 yrs. Cap & ball and a 66 Win in 44-40. Found an easy way to clean the bores in my sxs or 87 was to spray windex down bore, let sit for 10-15 min then shoot a couple of smokeyless shell downrange. cleans all the fouling out. I roll crimp all of my 12 ga. shells and use 48 gr. FFF Schutzen and 1 oz reclaim shot w fiber wads. takes the steel down with no problem.

 

Cheap windshield washer fluid works great to clean up black powder. I plug the barrels with a rubber cork from the hardware store and fill them and set aside while I clean the action. No fuss little muss. good gun oil after and no rust. The muzzle loaders just put a cap on the nipples and fill.

 

I have some winter blend windshield washer fluid I'm trying out tonight.

I wonder if you mixed Windex with it if it would work better?

 

Windshield washer fluid has alcohol and a surfactant. No need for additional soaps. works great as is

 

Deleted duplication

 

I didn't take an extra spray bottle so I tried using my blend of 1/3 alcohol, 1/3 peroxide, and 1/3 Murphy's oil soap,,,and Windex,,,to try and clean up.

I went home and fired up the Bunn coffeemaker and used hit soapy water.

Hot soapy water works real gooooood to clean up after blackpowder.

 

I use two buckets - soapy and clean water - both hot. With the barrels in the soapy water I pour down each one some SW with a small cup and then use a Tornado Brush to loosen all the crud. Then a wet patch up and down and then the same in clean water. After a 100 to 150 shots it takes the Tornado brush to make it a lot faster.

 

I do exactly the same.

I've heard of all kinds of other ways to clean blackpowder guns but I keep going back to hot soapy water, a wet patch or bore mop, a scratch brush, and a rinse with hot clean water, then after the barrels are dry I follow up with a CLP type oil. Then I follow up with regular bore solvents and patches and CLP one or two more days afterwards.

My black powder guns don't have any rust.

But it's trouble to clean them.

 

Great thread and I've been lurking here following what you gents suggest.

A couple questions if I may:

- It seems most folks are NOT using a lube on the fiber wad card? Is that correct?

-I read an American Rifleman article from 1964 that suggested using plastic hulls that have been cut to your chamber ( 2.5" or 2 5/8") BUT suggested instead of roll or fold crimping these hulls just using an Overshot Wad and gluing it in place. In effect using a 1x use plastic hull as you would a brass hull without a crimp. Has anyone tried this? It sounds like it would work fine.

-IS there a shelf life to worry about with loaded BP Shells since I am lubing the wad? I am storing these shells shot side DOWN so as to lessen any effects from lube bleeding into the powder.

My first timer BP load is:
Federal Hull
209 Cheddite Primer
1oz by volume FFg Grafs Black powder
BPI Nitro card- NC12
BPI 1/2" Felt Wad (with minimal crisco and beeswax lube absorbed into it) EDIT: MY MISTAKE, I AM USING A FIBER CUSHION FC12 FROM BPI....IS THERE A DIFFERENCE IN A FELT WAD AND A FIBER CUSHION?
This is what I have: BPI Shotshell Wads 12 Gauge 1/2" Fiber Bag of 500

1oz by volume #8 lead
Fold Crimp (no overshot card, crimps are ugly but no loose pellets and seem to hold together under recoil)

Any input from you experienced loaders welcomed.
I think going up to 1 oz of powder/1 oz #4 ITX shot is the next step for wood ducks if this works well.

 

For trap shooting we put a dab of Crisco on top of each shell in our cartridge block to keep the fouling soft. Two patches with windshield washer fluid and two with WD40 clean well enough for overnight storage, so we don't have to do the boiling water treatment after an evening shoot.

 

deleted - double post