You gonna get one?

 

I am definitely, as soon as they are available. A V3 PDW will be a nice addition to my 11-87s.

 

I am curious about these also. I really enjoy my customized Tac-14 and can quickly and reliably hit with it at reasonable combat distances. The strap is an absolute necessity in semi-auto as it could get away from you very quickly. My only concern is that rare emergency when you needed this thing in a hurry you might not have the time to get your hand into the strap. Several quick blasts might walk it back to the point that you lose fingers. These little shotguns, including the pumps, are really for experienced shooters whos other hobby is weightlifting. They are not for everybody.

 

I'll have 1... and a second one next year when they release the wood furniture.

 

You gonna get one?

I'd like to buy one

 

Give me the V3 gas system paired with the Mossberg double stack shotgun magazine and I'm all over it. For the time being I'll just sit on the sidelines.

I have a V3 Walnut 28" and love it. The short barrel with the birds head grip looks great. The lack of capacity is my sticking point. Remington will probably come out with a magazine fed version eventually, the Mossberg magazine just looks like a better design to me.

 

The Remington V3 Tac-13 impresses me, because the V3 recoil springs are located in the receiver, not the stock. There will not be a Mossberg 930 Shockwave to compete with it, without a major revision anyway. The Raptor Grip is less than 6" long, far too short to contain the over 12" long action return tube and spring of the Mossberg 930. Without a return spring, a mock-up could only function as a single shot.

Beyond the physical impossibility of a 13" 930 Shockwave being a semi-automatic, a mock-up would be a SBS. It would not eligible to be an AOW because every 930 leaves the factory with a stock. Nor could one use a Mossberg 5500 or Mossberg 9200 as the base semi-automatic firearm, neither having a return spring in the stock, because both models left the factory with stocks. That would make the firearm a SBS, and not eligible to be an AOW.

Oh well, a non-NFA Mossberg 930 Shockwave was a dream that lasted a few minutes until I thought it through. I love my Mossbergs, but bravo, Remington!

 

What about the Benelli M4? Could it work with a shockwave style grip?

 

No, the M4 must have the recoil tube and spring to function, and they all leave the factory with a stock. How about a Vinci at twice the cost?

The Remington V3 Tac-13 and the 870 Tac-14 and the Mossberg 590A1 Shockwave are already approved as having a sporting purpose. If we make a firearm like them, we still should get an ATF approval letter if for no other reason than to keep local LE from confiscating it. Or we could tell them that we read on the internet that they are legal...

A Vinci would work (or at least as reliably as an inertia gun without a shoulder pocket behind it could be expected to work), but all of them leave the factory with a stock. Same with a Remington 11-48, all left the factory with stocks.

The whole point is to have a non-NFA gun with a short barrel; otherwise, there are far better AOW options available and they can be concealed. And that does not just mean concealed on the body, because one might want an AOW beside him in a vehicle hidden by a newspaper or whatever. I should remind us that the short-barreled non-NFA guns cannot be concealed lest they be deemed destructive devices without a sporting purpose or AOWs without a paid stamp..

I seriously think that the Remington V3 Tac-13 would be a good motorcycle gun, at least if you have time to stop...

 

That looks like what I have been looking for to carry in grizzly country.

 

Shortly after they were introduced I saw a YouTube video of someone with a Mossberg Shockwave. They had installed a Picatinny Rail and a small laser at the rear end of the rail. The laser was easily activated with your thumb. This seems to me to be the safest way to use these types of firearms, this allows the user to keep the firearm low and fire accurately from the hip, just put the dot on the target and pull the trigger! This seems to me to be the most logical way to use these weapons. Any scenario that has the user holding the firearm up in order to sight down the barrel or through a red dot opens that user up to gathering the grip into their nose. Yes, a firm hand can help mitigate the risk, but without a buttstock the firing position is awkward at best.

I am certainly intrigued by all of these firearms, pump, or semi-automatic. I may even get one at some future point, just not now.

As I alluded to earlier... A magazine on one of these seems like a good solution to the capacity problem. The magazine that Mossberg has introduced with the 590M seems like a better magazine than the Remington offering. The Mossberg magazine has greater capacity and is a more compact design. Unfortunately I would not expect Remington to offer a similar design since they have a single stack magazine already available for the pump guns.

I do expect Remington to eventually adapt this firearm to use magazines, but the single stack magazines will get too long if capacity increases very much. Mossberg may eventually offer one of these short firearms in a semi-automatic action, but at present they are behind the curve compared to the V3 gas system. The problem of the spring tube in the buttstock is not impossible to solve, but Mossberg does not seem to be positioned as well as Remington with a solution to this problem.

 

Adding a magazine to one of these 26" firearms sort of defeats the purpose. Having a protrusion (something sticking out) at roughly 90 degrees is like the difference between a yard stick and a framing square. Anyone who has done much carpentry work knows how awkward it is to store and carry a framing square. Besides, the Remington magazines currently offered for the Tac-14 only hold one more round than the tubular magazine. Mossberg has a double stack version for their shotguns. But is a quick reload really necessary? Most civilian self defense shootings are solved in three or four shots. Common criminals and home invaders are not willing to lay down their lives for the success of the mission. They are not going to take a bullet so that their comrades can walk out with your big screen TV. Real criminals are lazy and want something for little effort and once you start shooting they will scatter like chickens. Your chances of having to reload in a home defense situation are extremely remote. Besides, when firing from cover your quickest reload is to grab another gun. Keep your handgun close by as a backup to your shotgun.

 

I follow both Remington and Mossberg on social media and am really surprised at the amount of time they spend marketing these extremely specialized shotguns. On one hand I would love to have one of just for play on the range but on the other I don't see the practical use.

Where I live there is not a single situation that I can imagine the benefits of having such a small shotgun would be advantageous to another gun or "regular-size" shotgun. Thinking about Doctorduck's post mentioning using this for hiking near bears seemed very smart for the concealability. If we had bears here I would be on board. Just my .02... probably worth less.

 

The last thing I would want in a non-NFA "Other"...or for that matter, any 12ga... is a detachable box magazine.

I like the Tac-13 concept much better than the Tac-14 or Shockwave. Let's see how it runs in the wild.

I am looking forward to a Tac-13 with a folding brace & forend with an integrated light and handstop. I could get behind that.

 

I agree that a box magazine protruding from the firearm defeats its purpose as a concealable PDW. I'm fine with the 5 + 1 capacity for its intended purpose.

Pardon this possibly offensive statement, but firing from the hip is utterly stupid. Hits are made using the sights and I would invest in a RDS before a laser. Sights like these might be a good upgrade. A WML and sling IMO are mandatory.

No doubt there will be effort involved in mastering the Tac-13, but I think the effort will be well worth it. For me, Living in NH and visiting relatives in NY, I can't take an AR or a handgun, but I can take a Tac-13 which will fit fully assembled in my travel duffel. I plan on being an early adopter.

 

You should be able to make good hits hip shooting at 20 feet and less, practice.

Sights are for distance and exra-fine accuracy, both of which are of limited use in self defense situations.

 

"Sights are for distance and exra-fine accuracy, both of which are of limited use in self defense situations."

I have no words. Just another reminder why I rarely post here any more.

Over and out.

 

... I plan on being an early adopter.

Please check in again when you have run some shells & have some experience with it; I am interested in your impressions.

 

You should be able to make good hits hip shooting at 20 feet and less, practice.

Sights are for distance and exra-fine accuracy, both of which are of limited use in self defense situations.

I guess that really depends on what your definition of good hits is.

Shooting my HD shotgun with Federal FC, the buckshot is just coming out of the wad at 20 feet so the pattern is about 1-1/2". I am morally and legally responsible to put those pellets where they need to go.

 

You should be able to make good hits hip shooting at 20 feet and less, practice.

Sights are for distance and exra-fine accuracy, both of which are of limited use in self defense situations.

I guess that really depends on what your definition of good hits is.

Shooting my HD shotgun with Federal FC, the buckshot is just coming out of the wad at 20 feet so the pattern is about 1-1/2". I am morally and legally responsible to put those pellets where they need to go.

That is quite true, and yet soooooo many people have an extreme "accuracy expectation" for firearms at what cannot be described as anything other than Point Blank distance.

People all over proclaim handgun/ammunition combinations that will not shoot 1" at 25 yards to be "too inaccurate" for self defense use, like they think they are going to have to thread a needle somehow. "The shirt is bullet proof,, but if I can just hit the button-hole, it'll get through there, so I need Button-Hole Selection Ammo".

Your shotgun is not a Sniper Rifle, never will be, no matter what Magic Ammo Federal produces, yet you seem to want it to be and you want to use it like one.

How wide is that target you need to shoot at 20 feet?

I am about 16" wide across my important bodily parts, not including arms.

I am going to call a "good hit" as anything within a 16"W x 24"H Upper Body Area
A Really Good Hit is that 8" Pie Plate just below the neck.

That Guy Who Needs Shot who is 20 feet away from you, charges you, if you are not ALREADY SHOULDERED, it will take him 1.0 second or less to get to you, you do not have time to shoulder. Better hip shoot it, twice, maybe 3 times.
How's your reaction time?
Normal Human Being from decision to action is between 1/4 and 1/2 second, it only gets longer as you age. That 1/4 second belongs to the 20-somethings who are essentially "waiting for the go-signal"
.
If you can't put that 1 1/2" cluster of balls into the upper torso from the hip as he is closing distance on you, you'd better practice.
1/2 second in that 1 1/2" is only .75" at 10 feet.
At 6 feet he can reach your shouldered gun, so you don't really have 20 feet, it's 14.

So, the Guy Who Needs Shot only has to cover 14-15 feet to get a hand to your gun, has 3/4 second to do it, YOU will need 1/2 second to see him charge, decide to shoot him, try to shoulder it so you can insure your "liability" with those buckshot is covered, get 1/2 shouldered when he slams into you, knifes the hell out of you (or perhaps just slams you into a wall or drives you into the floor (concussion?)), maybe then shoots you with your own Flite Control Wad, from 4 feet. Maybe twice.

Ever watch someone try to draw a handgun, from a holster (not a complicated Level III retention holster, just a simple friction-retention leather or Kydex gun-holder)?
The Draw Time vs. the Attacker Distance Covering is why the "21-foot rule" exists.
A non-crippled Human Being can cover that 21 feet before almost anyone can get a gun pulled out of that holster and bring it to bear.
Don't try to bum-rush Jerry Miculic, Doug Koenig, and a host of others, it's suicide, but they are not "typical" people.

Are you going to walk around your house clearing it shouldered?
Ever done that?
It's good for focusing you ahead, but you tend to lose Situational Awareness of the larger picture, your head "comes off the swivel". You become easier to blind-side.

Zimmerman was blind-sided by a larger assailant he did not see coming.

"Oh ****!!!!" allows no time for fine accuracy aiming. You need effective hits on target, and you need them like yesterday.

In theory, theory and reality are the same thing.

In reality, they seldom match up, theory falls short a lot of times.

 

I have always been of the opinion that combat shotguns are best suited for indoor distances. And that you should have a plan to use cover and concealment to fire from a prearranged chokepoint like a hall or staircase. When you play hide and seek with shotguns the hider always wins. Searching the house gives that advantage to the home invader who very well might be laying in wait for you.

 

Agreed, every word of it Ezra.

Just wait and ambush the baddie. "If you are in a fair fight, your tactics stink".

 

I am well aware of the Tueller drill, the 21 foot rule, and reaction times.

Ezra makes a very valid point regarding the use of choke points and cover. I would suggest that those intending to use a shotgun for HD find a time when everyone else is gone from the house and walk through scenarios with an unloaded shotgun, practicing bringing the shotgun from the ready position to sweep the rooms, practice using a light, etc.

I will not shoot from the hip. If something goes bump in the night and shotgun is in my hands, it will be at the low ready, the high ready, or the close ready (low ready pointed more down to clear doorways, etc.).

 

I finally bit the bullet and bought one. I haven't fired it yet, still a little under the weather with the flu.