There is a split collar that holds the magazine spring in, it can be carefully worked up to the top with a med sized screwdriver much like a snap ring, careful to work it up evenly as not to distort it's flatness,when it finally is high enough the whole thing will come flying out from the pressure of the magazine follower spring, good time to clean this area, turn the gun butt up and the magazine follower will slide almost out, you can then remove it completely by using your index finger, place some solvent on a gauge larger mop and a few strokes with a copper brush if necessary to completely clean the interior of the magazine tube, follower, and the spring of any powder residue, use a lubricant that will dry like sheath by Birchwood Casey (now called Barricade) and you will be good to go, the plug BELONGS between this split collar and the magazine cap, first install follower flat side first, then the spring,then the split collar to retain the magazine spring, then install the wooden plug, then install the barrel and screw on magazine cap, this facilitates much easier installation and removal, most hunters place it below the split collar to prevent loss when removing or installing the barrel onto the receiver, a little practice and you will not loose it.

 

Thank you, now it is all clear to me. A previous owner must have made this practical adjustment. How much trouble is it to replace the split ring and spring, and do you have any tips on this procedure?

Once again, thank you txrick55 for your time and knowledge.

 

The split ring will take a little "persuasion" to move and then remove, in a perfect world, a pair of pliers that open when the handles are squeezed, and a flat tip at right angle to the pliers, to insert in the center of the ring just behind the flat surface that the plug is now resting against and pull straight out would be perfect. I don't seem to have anything made quite that way, so I insert the tip of a flat screwdriver behind it padded with a small cloth and gently pry towards the magazine cap a little at a time, working it out slowly from side to side, it takes a little practice but patience is key, once it is out far enough you will see the shoulder protruding out of the end of the magazine tube, this is when I grab a shop rag, and place it over the end of the tube, re-insert the screw driver and cover with one hand while pulling out the split ring with the other to catch the magazine spring ,and split collar together. It has tension but not a lot, it is not dangerous, just very surprising, protect your eyes with glasses. I have never seen an A5 that would require the replacing of the magazine spring or split collar, just keep them clean. Powder residue tends to eventually build up on the metal piece the first shell you load into the magazine rests against, this is what I am calling a follower, as you load more shells the crud travels up the magazine tube, that is why I suggest a lube that will stay dry so as not to attract any dirt or powder but still prevent any rust from building up inside the magazine tube, I have seen quite a few of them that were very dirty in this area, a spot usually overlooked when routine cleaning is performed.

 

txrick55 thank you for your help. with the information you provided i was able to pull the plug. The most difficult part was replacing the compression ring without doing dammage. Thanks again.

 

Next time you can use the wooden plug as a " starter" to replace the split ring, line it up and give a smart tap with the heel of your hand, then press it on down with your hand past the small lip at the end of the mag tube and you are back in business, like I said, it just takes a little practice. Congrats, glad I could help.

 

txrick55

I have used your instructions for working on a Remington Model 11 16 gauge. All the descriptions fit perfectly, and I've removed the split ring and cleaned the magazine, and it works fine with four shells now.

Question: If I put a plug between the magazine cap and the split ring, I'll need to push the ring down the magazine, right? Will I ever be able to get it out? i.e., Is that a permanent installation?

Thanks for your excellent description.

(I know the thread is old. Just hoping for a little advice.)

 

Yeah, I think Rick has that part backwards!

Put the follower in, then the spring, then the plug on top of the spring, then the split ring, and then the magazine cap.

 

Most interesting topic and thanks Paavo for bumping it up!

Interestingly, my today's problem was the converse: how to reinstall the magazine tube spring plus the "split collar" (magazine spring retainer). I'm currently in the process of putting back all parts of my 1907 made Auto 5 - all parts were disassembled (literally: all). Prying out the magazine spring retainer wasn't new to me. But bringing it back to it's seat…. At a first attempt it was necessary to have six hands (like an Indian goddess). But I found out how to manage it in some minutes with only two hands.

I took a rod with a diameter smaller than the diameter of the magazine spring retainer (that split ring thing). I inserted the rod (white in the photo - a simple curtain rod, which was at hand by chance) in the magazine tube and slipped over the magazine spring (without such a guiding rod it's quiet difficult to insert the spring - with the guiding rod, it's very easy). After that, I slipped over the rod the magazine spring retainer.



On the photo you'll note a screw clamp. Initially, I used it for fixing the spring and retainer for making the photo (I needed both hands free for making the photo) - but I noticed then, the clamp is good for the next step also. Which is very easy: push the retainer to the magazine tube, press it in - ready.

Regards

Martin

 

The plug is the last thing to go in the mag tube. You should be able to remove the plug by just removing the mag cap. The cap will push the retainer down enough when tightening it up.

 

Martin

The split ring (retainer) in the pic is up-side down, the rounded portion goes into the magazine tube first, it should press in with moderate finger pressure. I bet you had a time trying to put it in that way......WHEW !!

As far as installing the plug goes, as Ole Cowboy described, that is for using during hunting season, with the plug below the retainer.
1. follower first, spring second, plug third, retainer last.

As I described above, I use this method to make the plug easy to remove during practice shooting, problem is, it is much easier to lose or mis-place the plug when installing the barrel & fore end.
2. Follower first, spring second, retainer third, plug last.

The retainer has two small holes, use a pair of compressing snap ring pliers with tips that just fit the holes, insert, compress the retainer ( makes the OD smaller) and slowly pull the retainer out, INSTANT HANDLE !! Makes it MUCH easier!!!
Stay ready for when that long spring comes after you !!
To install just reverse procedure.

 

As I described above, I use this method to make the plug easy to remove during practice shooting, problem is, it is much easier to lose or mis-place the plug when installing the barrel & fore end.
2. Follower first, spring second, retainer third, plug last.

It would likely be illegal to hunt ducks or doves with it set up in this way, so why even put it back like that. Makes no sense.

 

Tex Fed Migratory reg and I quote:
.................................................................................................................................
•Legal Shotgun: Shotguns not larger than 10 gauge, fired from the shoulder, and incapable of holding more than three shells (shotguns capable of holding more than three shells must be plugged with a one-piece filler which is incapable of removal without disassembling the gun, so the gun's total capacity does not exceed three shells).
................................................................................................................................

In your opinion....
would removal of the magazine cap constitute disassemby, since the gun is unloaded & it can not be fired and is not considered assembled untl the mag cap is replaced?

Might be more up to the interpretation of the particular warden in your area.
I will inquire & get back to you.

 

Well, I can tell you that they did not intend for it to be as easy as just taking the magazine cap off and removing the plug and replacing the cap. They do not want you to be able to put the plug back in the gun in less than 30 seconds, if you happen to see the warden approaching.

So my opinion is that taking the magazine off does NOT constitute disassembly and neither does the sprite of the law.

Granted, in this day and age, the three shot rule is redundant. Limit laws control the amount of game taken. They should resend it.

 

The plug goes in last and the split ring goes in rounded side up, just like in the above pic. Removing the mag cap does constitute dissembly of the gun. My guns have been checked by both federal and state wardens at least a dozen times over the years and all passed.

 

I looked at a lot of A5s over my lifetime and have never encountered one installed exept with the round side up as pictured. Thet are a pita to install that way. Much easier with a pair of snap ring pliers.

Having said that, my 1977 Light 12 has a plastic retainer that slides up and down in the magazine easily against the spring. I've never seen another like it. I rescued this gun from a pawn shop. Was this changed by a previous owner or did early Jap guns have a plastic retainer?

I've never had a warden check the plug in any gun I carried. They only checked if the magazine would accept more than 2 shells.

 

The plug goes in last and the split ring goes in rounded side up, just like in the above pic. Removing the mag cap does constitute dissembly of the gun. My guns have been checked by both federal and state wardens at least a dozen times over the years and all passed.

Technically, you are wrong. Removing the cap does not constitute disassembly of the gun. That's absurd!
Just be they checked you doesn't mean they really knew what they were seeing. Did you show them ow easy it was to remove the plug? I think not.

 

You are wrong and that's all there is to it. You put your guns together any way you want I'll put mine together the way thay are ment to be.

And one of the guns checked was a Mag-12 with homemade plug that would actually let 3, 2 3/4" shells in the mag. The warden checked it with 2 3/4" shells he got from a buds coat and shoved all three in the mag. The warden seen that my hunting coat only had 3" shells in it so he checked it again with them and it only held 2 of them. He then went to his truck and got a new pencil and pulled the plug from my gun, cut the pencil a bit longer than the plug he took out and put it in the gun and handed it back to me.

 

Whatever! :roll:

 

Well Browning suggests just placing it between the mag cap & retainer:
1935

Present (page 6 (15) & page 7 (14)
http://media.browning.com/pdf/om/auto5_light_om_s.pdf

I spoke with three Wardens & their response was the Fed law states the plug can not be removed from the magazine loading port.

( page 2 at the top)
http://www.fws.gov/news/historic/1935/19350208.pdf

I quote: Texas Parks & Widlife:
" 3. Plug. Your shotgun must not be capable of holding more than three shells. This means a total of three shells, including the one in the chamber. In other words, the magazine may not hold more than two shells. If you choose to make your own plug, make absolutely sure that it is long enough to prevent a third shell from fitting into your magazine. Remember, some shells are shorter than others."

Page 3 extolls one reason Auto-loaders & pumps seem so frowned upon by SxS afficianados.

Now exactly what did the USDA have to do with Migratory birds in 1935 ??

 

I remembered reading this thread a few months back and txrick's tips for re-installing the magazine spring retainer really came in handy today so thanks, txrick55! Just thought I'd pass that along.

 

quite welcome.