Back when I used to hunt a lot of small game (squirrels, rabbits, grouse, occasional pheasant) I used to think/argue that #6 was best all around size, followed by 7.5 and 8's a distant 3rd. The 8's just didn't perform well on squirrels or pheasants. I used to wish for a factory load in #7 as I figured that would be the ideal all around size (for my purposes). Now that I'm older and wiser(questionable) I realize how little difference there is in these in reality, especially the 7.5 and 8's. I still think that #6s work best for me, in fact I now use some bismuth 6s as I hunt some public land that requires non toxic and they work very well. I think steel #5's would work good but I've never seen a factory load suitable for upland game with them. Not a real question just looking for some discussion.
mnmarlin
I like #5 full choke for tree rats personally. Gonna try to get my hands in some#4 for this season
At roughly 300 to the ounce, 7s have long been an imagined swell upland bird pellet....in using them in factory or handloads tho....the truth seems to be that #5 - #8 all works, when choked, pointed and triggered correctly and, with choice best related to shot weight chosen to whichever delivers confidence or to finding ok table fare.
Pellet size....other than at some extreme on either end, is small taters.
Pellet size....other than at some extreme on either end, is small taters.
I suspect your are right Multiflora. I know that back in the day we had endless discussions about what we thought worked best and people used everything from 4's to 8's for 'general' hunting use. They all worked. Although I've never understood why the ammo companies load 4's or even 5's in the .410, it really hurts the pellet count.
I
I
I use 6s for everything that requires lead shot. I used to use 7.5s on quail and IC chokes, but kept losing tough, blue quail that would have just enough left to crawl in a hole after being hit. When I switched to 6s and a modified choke, quail were found much more often where they fell. Pheasants have never seemed as hard to anchor for me as those blue quail!
I’ve always used # 5 lead for pheasant. I know that # 6 will knock them down also, and have used them, but I seem to always go back to the #5 load.
When we actually used to have grouse and quail in CT, I used #7-1/2, but those days are long gone.
I’ve used Bismuth # 5 for preserve pheasant, and they worked well.
When we actually used to have grouse and quail in CT, I used #7-1/2, but those days are long gone.
I’ve used Bismuth # 5 for preserve pheasant, and they worked well.
I was brought up using sixes on pheasants. I switched number fives and find them to be a much better choice.
Fives or sixes on rabbits, and seven in the house on grouse, Woodcock, and squirrels.
The truth is, though, we could all argue about what we use for watt, and we’ve all probably been just about as successful as each other
Fives or sixes on rabbits, and seven in the house on grouse, Woodcock, and squirrels.
The truth is, though, we could all argue about what we use for watt, and we’ve all probably been just about as successful as each other
I use #7 as my all purpose lead shot when I could get it, my shot supply is now dwindling and I’m down to #6 lead shot which is working surprisingly well even on clays with my normal 1oz loads. Shows how little it probably matters in reality. I used #5 steel loads for upland and clays this year and was impressed, we also used it to great effect on crows last season. My steel loads are within $2 a box of my lead loads now so at some point I imagine I will just switch to steel for everything as these margins keep shrinking. If I had a steady powder supply for my steel loads I’d be shooting a lot more of them. I’m at the point now that reloading is not saving me any money as far as target and upland loads go so I’m just going to buy factory 7.5 shells until that all sorts out, I’ve killed lots of dove quail and grouse with factory 7.5 target/upland shells 8 shot tends to get into the meat more often.
5's and a mod. are magic to me on Pheasant's and Rabbit's. Tradition I guess.(That works) But I have used 7 1/2 spreaders with a skeet tube on the first shot from a double for Pen birds.(Also works) Depends on the hunt.
MnMarlin,
We use #8 thru #6's most of the time while upland bird hunting, I do have some #7 Steel shot for my modern 28, that I had to use one time where lead was not allowed. I use the #8's under the 1st trigger and #6's under the back trigger most of the time while Grouse & Woodcock hunting, works quite well with instant choke selection on the DT Grouse guns.
all the best,
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man
We use #8 thru #6's most of the time while upland bird hunting, I do have some #7 Steel shot for my modern 28, that I had to use one time where lead was not allowed. I use the #8's under the 1st trigger and #6's under the back trigger most of the time while Grouse & Woodcock hunting, works quite well with instant choke selection on the DT Grouse guns.
all the best,
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man
Back when I was a youngster, I used #2, for Geese, #4 for ducks, #5 for pheasant, # 6 for Squirrel, and rabbit, #7 1/2 for quail, woodcock, and dove. That was the good old days of lead shot.
cdb
cdb
#5 lead for pheasant because quite often you are shooting at their tail and sometimes farther away.
#6 lead has pellet pattern density but my dog seems to bring back more cripples which isn't optimal. For close and crossing shots, it's great but I never know where the bird might flush from or which way it will go. Bunnies are light boned and anything will kill them but often shooting through brush... #6 is what I have around and use.
Bismuth... #4 and expect it to act like #6
#6 lead has pellet pattern density but my dog seems to bring back more cripples which isn't optimal. For close and crossing shots, it's great but I never know where the bird might flush from or which way it will go. Bunnies are light boned and anything will kill them but often shooting through brush... #6 is what I have around and use.
Bismuth... #4 and expect it to act like #6
I like #4 for rabbits and squirrels, less shot to ruin the meat or push hair in.
#5 for turkeys although I have probably killed more with #4s. Been carrying #6 for the last few years though.
Have had good luck with #4 on some pheasants and used some 7 1/2 with good luck on birds that behave.
7 1/2 are probably my favorite for doves although #6 swat them with authority but too many in the breast can ruin them.
No use for #8s. Have had too many doves that looked like a bomb went off but pick them up alive or have them start to crash but regain their wits and scoot off. I wonder how many of those died on down the line.
I am wanting to try some #7 in my 16 once I start loading.
I could be pretty happy with #5 & probably 7 1/2 for most of my shotgunning.
Steel for ducks or geese I like #1 on geese and #3 on ducks.
#5 for turkeys although I have probably killed more with #4s. Been carrying #6 for the last few years though.
Have had good luck with #4 on some pheasants and used some 7 1/2 with good luck on birds that behave.
7 1/2 are probably my favorite for doves although #6 swat them with authority but too many in the breast can ruin them.
No use for #8s. Have had too many doves that looked like a bomb went off but pick them up alive or have them start to crash but regain their wits and scoot off. I wonder how many of those died on down the line.
I am wanting to try some #7 in my 16 once I start loading.
I could be pretty happy with #5 & probably 7 1/2 for most of my shotgunning.
Steel for ducks or geese I like #1 on geese and #3 on ducks.
Does anyone have any knowledge on why the ammo companies abandoned #7s for # 7 1/2? They were doing fine going from #2-#6 but then decided to go to #7 1/2. I wish they had not as I think #7 would be a wonderful shot size for much of what we shoot in the uplands.
Anybody know or has a good guess why they slipped up and went to #7 1/2? I have never found the answer.
Anybody know or has a good guess why they slipped up and went to #7 1/2? I have never found the answer.
Guess:
50 more pellets than 7s, along with the human desire to imagine a trade-off that works....all followed by a marketing prowess of that difference.
Plus, the extreme range of early available shot sizes was the must-have of the day perhaps.
Were the Internet around at the time.....experts would have pimped any must-have....in a fashion, I'm sure they did.
Not much changes re people.
50 more pellets than 7s, along with the human desire to imagine a trade-off that works....all followed by a marketing prowess of that difference.
Plus, the extreme range of early available shot sizes was the must-have of the day perhaps.
Were the Internet around at the time.....experts would have pimped any must-have....in a fashion, I'm sure they did.
Not much changes re people.
I enjoyed reading your post. Until shooting clays came into my life #4 - #6 were my favorites.
Now, shooting clay birds instead, I wrestled a long time telling myself that anything between 7 & 8 1/2 was fine & there was no difference. After nearly 3 years & 1000's of shells I cannot deny that I seem to do much better with 7 1/2 than anything else. I can now also see that there are notable differences in brands sometimes. I've certainly seen that 3 great brands of ammo shoot much dirtier than others.
Whatever: "It's just a pipe", right? Yeah....right.
And you're right, #6 IS great ammo. JMO
Now, shooting clay birds instead, I wrestled a long time telling myself that anything between 7 & 8 1/2 was fine & there was no difference. After nearly 3 years & 1000's of shells I cannot deny that I seem to do much better with 7 1/2 than anything else. I can now also see that there are notable differences in brands sometimes. I've certainly seen that 3 great brands of ammo shoot much dirtier than others.
Whatever: "It's just a pipe", right? Yeah....right.
And you're right, #6 IS great ammo. JMO
My Dad always used 6's for everything so talking about being brought up using a particular shot size I can relate to that. As I got older it seemed to me pheasants and rabbits would turn around and look at me like "Is that all you got?". I switched to 4's for pheasant, rabbits and squirrels back in the 80's. For me the 4's break bones and less wounding of game that never gets found. For grouse, woodcock and doves its 7's or 7 1/2's. My one exception is the 28 ga's. I have 6's both steel and lead for them. I know they say use different shot size if shooting steel or lead but I personally stay with the same shot size for both. If anything I adjust my choke choice.
Been loading shotshells since a teen and now in mid-60's.
Never did a lot of quail hunting, but did dove hunt quite a bit with 12's and 20's over the years. I came to really appreciate #8.5's for early season doves (as well as skeet and hand-thrown clays). LOTS of pattern density and just used my standard target load of 1 1/8 oz. in 12 and 7/8 oz in 20.
For later in the season, would often switch to #7.5's.
Would occasionally be involved in shooting some Rock Pigeons on family farm areas - and they seemed a bit larger and tougher than Doves. #6's seemed to work much more decisively.
A few years back, wife and I did a couple of trips to SD to pheasant hunt. By then, I was really into loading for and shooting 28 ga. I tried a few different factory loads - the Fiocchi 'Golden Pheasant' 7/8 oz. nickel plated #6's performed well. I was surprised at what did even better - my standard target load, 3/4 oz. of nickel plated #5.5's that I'd gotten through BPI (Ballistic Products Inc). They took down large birds at every angle all the way out to about 40 yards.
I was amazed.
Another real surprise - tried some of the Win. 1 oz. #6's. Don't know, perhaps they were slow, or didn't pattern well in my guns - but they resulted in several 'leg-drop, hit ground running' birds. Even lost a couple of birds hit with it - and good dogs involved. Yes, this was far from scientific, but the 1 oz. produced noticeably more recoil in a light upland gun (CZ Bobwhite SxS and Franchi 48AL) It left me very unimpressed.
Never did a lot of quail hunting, but did dove hunt quite a bit with 12's and 20's over the years. I came to really appreciate #8.5's for early season doves (as well as skeet and hand-thrown clays). LOTS of pattern density and just used my standard target load of 1 1/8 oz. in 12 and 7/8 oz in 20.
For later in the season, would often switch to #7.5's.
Would occasionally be involved in shooting some Rock Pigeons on family farm areas - and they seemed a bit larger and tougher than Doves. #6's seemed to work much more decisively.
A few years back, wife and I did a couple of trips to SD to pheasant hunt. By then, I was really into loading for and shooting 28 ga. I tried a few different factory loads - the Fiocchi 'Golden Pheasant' 7/8 oz. nickel plated #6's performed well. I was surprised at what did even better - my standard target load, 3/4 oz. of nickel plated #5.5's that I'd gotten through BPI (Ballistic Products Inc). They took down large birds at every angle all the way out to about 40 yards.
I was amazed.
Another real surprise - tried some of the Win. 1 oz. #6's. Don't know, perhaps they were slow, or didn't pattern well in my guns - but they resulted in several 'leg-drop, hit ground running' birds. Even lost a couple of birds hit with it - and good dogs involved. Yes, this was far from scientific, but the 1 oz. produced noticeably more recoil in a light upland gun (CZ Bobwhite SxS and Franchi 48AL) It left me very unimpressed.
When I could shoot lead shot at birds I could clearly see how much harder lead #7-1/2 shot hit birds compared to lead #8 shot. With my lead #7 shot reloads they worked much better than lead #7-1/2 shot on pigeons, chukar and eurasian collered dove.
Out past 50 yards while shooting 5-Stand and Sporting Clays I get way better results using lead #7-1/2 shot compared to lead #8 shot. For me lead #8 shot breaks targets just fine at 50 yards and less.
From KPY Shotshell Ballistics
1300 fps lead #8 shot gets 1.0" of gel penetration at 40.3 yards with 0.84 lbs of energy and is going 599 fps at 40.3 yards.
1300 fps lead #7-1/2 shot gets 1.16" of gel penetration at 40.3 yards with 1.07 lbs of energy and is going 622 fps at 40.3 yards.
1300 fps lead #7 shot gets 1.32" of gel penetration at 40.3 yards with 1.33 lbs of energy and is going 642 fps at 40.3 yards.
1300 fps lead #6 shot gets 1.62" of gel penetration at 40.3 yards with 1.96 lbs of energy and is going 675 fps at 40.3 yards.
1300 fps lead #5 shot gets 1.96" of gel penetration at 40.3 yards with 2.80 lbs of energy and is going 708 fps at 40.3 yards.
at 40.3 yards each lead #7-1/2 pellet has 27.38% more energy than each lead #8 pellet
at 40.3 yards each lead #7 pellet has 24.29% more energy than each lead #7-1/2 pellet
at 40.3 yards each lead #6 pellet has 47.6% more energy than each lead #7 pellet
at 40.3 yards each lead #5 pellet has 42.85% more energy than each lead #6 pellet
The energy jump at 40.3 yards between lead #7-1/2 and lead #6 shot is 83.17%
Out past 50 yards while shooting 5-Stand and Sporting Clays I get way better results using lead #7-1/2 shot compared to lead #8 shot. For me lead #8 shot breaks targets just fine at 50 yards and less.
From KPY Shotshell Ballistics
1300 fps lead #8 shot gets 1.0" of gel penetration at 40.3 yards with 0.84 lbs of energy and is going 599 fps at 40.3 yards.
1300 fps lead #7-1/2 shot gets 1.16" of gel penetration at 40.3 yards with 1.07 lbs of energy and is going 622 fps at 40.3 yards.
1300 fps lead #7 shot gets 1.32" of gel penetration at 40.3 yards with 1.33 lbs of energy and is going 642 fps at 40.3 yards.
1300 fps lead #6 shot gets 1.62" of gel penetration at 40.3 yards with 1.96 lbs of energy and is going 675 fps at 40.3 yards.
1300 fps lead #5 shot gets 1.96" of gel penetration at 40.3 yards with 2.80 lbs of energy and is going 708 fps at 40.3 yards.
at 40.3 yards each lead #7-1/2 pellet has 27.38% more energy than each lead #8 pellet
at 40.3 yards each lead #7 pellet has 24.29% more energy than each lead #7-1/2 pellet
at 40.3 yards each lead #6 pellet has 47.6% more energy than each lead #7 pellet
at 40.3 yards each lead #5 pellet has 42.85% more energy than each lead #6 pellet
The energy jump at 40.3 yards between lead #7-1/2 and lead #6 shot is 83.17%
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