[Der Verge]

Whatca talking bout Willis!?!

I love speech to text! Lol

 

[oyeme]

Does anyone have any knowledge on why the ammo companies abandoned #7s for # 7 1/2? They were doing fine going from #2-#6 but then decided to go to #7 1/2. I wish they had not as I think #7 would be a wonderful shot size for much of what we shoot in the uplands.

Anybody know or has a good guess why they slipped up and went to #7 1/2? I have never found the answer.

 

[Pumped full of buckshot]

Here's some #4's. I have dealt with this company; reasonable shipping costs. (They also have lead BB; hard if not impossible to find nowadays)

SHOTGUN AMMUNITION - AB Guns

abguns.com

Nice thank you

 

[Multiflora]

Does anyone have any knowledge on why the ammo companies abandoned #7s for # 7 1/2? They were doing fine going from #2-#6 but then decided to go to #7 1/2. I wish they had not as I think #7 would be a wonderful shot size for much of what we shoot in the uplands.

Anybody know or has a good guess why they slipped up and went to #7 1/2? I have never found the answer.

Guess:
50 more pellets than 7s, along with the human desire to imagine a trade-off that works....all followed by a marketing prowess of that difference.

Plus, the extreme range of early available shot sizes was the must-have of the day perhaps.
Were the Internet around at the time.....experts would have pimped any must-have....in a fashion, I'm sure they did.
Not much changes re people.

 

[oyeme]

The Live Pigeon load was/is 1 1/4 oz., #7s @ 1,220 fps. IMO An awesome load for many applications.

Always patterned beautifully in every gun I shot with that load.

 

[Upland Quest]

Winchester makes a 20ga AA super sporting round that I buy a flat of before every dove season. What’s left gets used for 20ga sporting events. 7/8oz of 7.5s at 1300fps is a great dove load. I have no problem killing dove cleanly out to 45yrds with M/IM chokes.

 

[Orberdorfer]

Back when I used to hunt a lot of small game (squirrels, rabbits, grouse, occasional pheasant) I used to think/argue that #6 was best all around size, followed by 7.5 and 8's a distant 3rd. The 8's just didn't perform well on squirrels or pheasants. I used to wish for a factory load in #7 as I figured that would be the ideal all around size (for my purposes). Now that I'm older and wiser(questionable) I realize how little difference there is in these in reality, especially the 7.5 and 8's. I still think that #6s work best for me, in fact I now use some bismuth 6s as I hunt some public land that requires non toxic and they work very well. I think steel #5's would work good but I've never seen a factory load suitable for upland game with them. Not a real question just looking for some discussion.

I enjoyed reading your post. Until shooting clays came into my life #4 - #6 were my favorites.
Now, shooting clay birds instead, I wrestled a long time telling myself that anything between 7 & 8 1/2 was fine & there was no difference. After nearly 3 years & 1000's of shells I cannot deny that I seem to do much better with 7 1/2 than anything else. I can now also see that there are notable differences in brands sometimes. I've certainly seen that 3 great brands of ammo shoot much dirtier than others.
Whatever: "It's just a pipe", right? Yeah....right.
And you're right, #6 IS great ammo. JMO

 

[Old_Skeet]

Years back, it was 4, 6 & 8's for me in my sxs based upon distant and type of small game.

Today in my 20 gauge sxs it's #5's and 7.5's. Same for my 2 shot (plugged) automatic. And, at times, I have been known to shoot a 50/50 mixed shot load.

 

[Travis Montana]

My Dad always used 6's for everything so talking about being brought up using a particular shot size I can relate to that. As I got older it seemed to me pheasants and rabbits would turn around and look at me like "Is that all you got?". I switched to 4's for pheasant, rabbits and squirrels back in the 80's. For me the 4's break bones and less wounding of game that never gets found. For grouse, woodcock and doves its 7's or 7 1/2's. My one exception is the 28 ga's. I have 6's both steel and lead for them. I know they say use different shot size if shooting steel or lead but I personally stay with the same shot size for both. If anything I adjust my choke choice.

 

[2ndWave]

Been loading shotshells since a teen and now in mid-60's.
Never did a lot of quail hunting, but did dove hunt quite a bit with 12's and 20's over the years. I came to really appreciate #8.5's for early season doves (as well as skeet and hand-thrown clays). LOTS of pattern density and just used my standard target load of 1 1/8 oz. in 12 and 7/8 oz in 20.
For later in the season, would often switch to #7.5's.

Would occasionally be involved in shooting some Rock Pigeons on family farm areas - and they seemed a bit larger and tougher than Doves. #6's seemed to work much more decisively.

A few years back, wife and I did a couple of trips to SD to pheasant hunt. By then, I was really into loading for and shooting 28 ga. I tried a few different factory loads - the Fiocchi 'Golden Pheasant' 7/8 oz. nickel plated #6's performed well. I was surprised at what did even better - my standard target load, 3/4 oz. of nickel plated #5.5's that I'd gotten through BPI (Ballistic Products Inc). They took down large birds at every angle all the way out to about 40 yards.
I was amazed.

Another real surprise - tried some of the Win. 1 oz. #6's. Don't know, perhaps they were slow, or didn't pattern well in my guns - but they resulted in several 'leg-drop, hit ground running' birds. Even lost a couple of birds hit with it - and good dogs involved. Yes, this was far from scientific, but the 1 oz. produced noticeably more recoil in a light upland gun (CZ Bobwhite SxS and Franchi 48AL) It left me very unimpressed.

 

[derbyacresbob]

When I could shoot lead shot at birds I could clearly see how much harder lead #7-1/2 shot hit birds compared to lead #8 shot. With my lead #7 shot reloads they worked much better than lead #7-1/2 shot on pigeons, chukar and eurasian collered dove.

Out past 50 yards while shooting 5-Stand and Sporting Clays I get way better results using lead #7-1/2 shot compared to lead #8 shot. For me lead #8 shot breaks targets just fine at 50 yards and less.

From KPY Shotshell Ballistics

1300 fps lead #8 shot gets 1.0" of gel penetration at 40.3 yards with 0.84 lbs of energy and is going 599 fps at 40.3 yards.
1300 fps lead #7-1/2 shot gets 1.16" of gel penetration at 40.3 yards with 1.07 lbs of energy and is going 622 fps at 40.3 yards.
1300 fps lead #7 shot gets 1.32" of gel penetration at 40.3 yards with 1.33 lbs of energy and is going 642 fps at 40.3 yards.
1300 fps lead #6 shot gets 1.62" of gel penetration at 40.3 yards with 1.96 lbs of energy and is going 675 fps at 40.3 yards.
1300 fps lead #5 shot gets 1.96" of gel penetration at 40.3 yards with 2.80 lbs of energy and is going 708 fps at 40.3 yards.

at 40.3 yards each lead #7-1/2 pellet has 27.38% more energy than each lead #8 pellet

at 40.3 yards each lead #7 pellet has 24.29% more energy than each lead #7-1/2 pellet

at 40.3 yards each lead #6 pellet has 47.6% more energy than each lead #7 pellet

at 40.3 yards each lead #5 pellet has 42.85% more energy than each lead #6 pellet

The energy jump at 40.3 yards between lead #7-1/2 and lead #6 shot is 83.17%

 

[Turkinator]

I recall that the sorely missed gun writer Don Zutz was a huge fan of #7 shot

At roughly 300 to the ounce, 7s have long been an imagined swell upland bird pellet....in using them in factory or handloads tho....the truth seems to be that #5 - #8 all works, when choked, pointed and triggered correctly and, with choice best related to shot weight chosen to whichever delivers confidence or to finding ok table fare.

Pellet size....other than at some extreme on either end, is small taters.

 

[Sportshot2]

How I would of loved to have 2 400R’s on my 24’ Skater

 

[Justin L.]

Personally- I tend to use or prefer larger shot. For doves, 7 1/2’s always worked well and I would hunt them with 6’s but saw no need to do that.

Pheasants, squirrel, rabbits- I liked #5’s which I specifically got for the squirrel hunting but works great for the others, as well. I don’t have much experience grouse shooting, I would probably pick #6’s if I was targeting them, but I have killed them just fine with 7 1/2’s, and my normal small game load for squirrels (#5’s would do, as well).

Turkey’s I’ve killed with 4’s, 5’s, and 6’s- again I think the 4’s were the best, but I had no problem with up to 6’s and never attempted anything smaller than that.

All of the above is for lead shot, I’m kind of curious why some of you use or favor smaller shot for small game hunting. The only logical reason I can see is you can use a more open choke and still have enough density to kill game with. Smaller shot to me has just stayed in the meat and doesn’t penetrate as well. I know the bigger shot sometimes pulls feathers into the meat more, but I haven’t really experienced that much and I’d rather have a feather in the meat than a BB. The bigger shot in my experience has just killed better and resulted in less birds (or squirrels and rabbits) still being alive when I pick them up.

I’m hoping to actually try some different non-toxic shot and sizes for ducks and geese this year. I killed my first geese years ago with T shot, but I found BB to work great on them and ducks. I haven’t shot enough steel shot to really say which is better or best, but I am not a fan of steel so I’m going to experiment with some Tungsten and Bismuth this year.

 

[mms-3]

Pheasant = 5s
Grouse = 7.5s

I use 6s on pheasant and grouse if that’s all I have available but 5s clearly hit big roosters harder and will take them down when hitting them tail first. For grouse I found that 7.5s are deadly in the north woods and they seem to fly between the pellets if I’m shooting 6s. My buddy still insists that 6s are better for grouse but he also misses more than I do

 

[oyeme]

I recently ran into a VERY good Sporting Clays shooter who has won many National titles in SC and FITASC. Suffice to say he is really competent with a shotgun. We met at a grouse camp in ME this past October. He surprised me by saying that #9 shot was the absolute best for grouse! I was gob smacked and told him that even Bruce Buck who he knew personally, recommended #6 shot.

He said that # 9s were best because the grouse would fall and flop around a lot making them easier to find. I did not argue because after all he has killed far more grouse than I have. Go figure.

 

[Multiflora]

I recently ran into a VERY good Sporting Clays shooter who has won many National titles in SC and FITASC...... We met at a grouse camp in ME this past October. He surprised me by saying that #9 shot was the absolute best for grouse! ...He said that # 9s were best because the grouse would fall and flop around a lot making them easier to find....

So, one should try for grassing but wounding a bird and 9s enable that theory?
Odd.
Also sounds like he does not have a bird dog and is, basically, a grouse shooter.

Basically X2, the "flop around" seems a pretty low shelf reason for using 9s.....not sure it is even accurate, as more enters a shot and shot result than pellet size.
Quite a world we have today tho....all kinds are out & about.

 

[Rooster booster]

I recently ran into a VERY good Sporting Clays shooter who has won many National titles in SC and FITASC. Suffice to say he is really competent with a shotgun. We met at a grouse camp in ME this past October. He surprised me by saying that #9 shot was the absolute best for grouse! I was gob smacked and told him that even Bruce Buck who he knew personally, recommended #6 shot.

He said that # 9s were best because the grouse would fall and flop around a lot making them easier to find. I did not argue because after all he has killed far more grouse than I have. Go figure.

Curious, did this guy own/use a dog?

 

[oyeme]

Curious, did this guy own/use a dog?

He was at camp where they use dogs. I am only the messenger but had to relate it because like I said, he knows how to swing a shotgun! I thought it strange also and it is why it stuck in my mind. I use 1 oz #6s from a 20 gauge with IC & Mod chokes. However, I don't hit grouse nearly as well as he does and never will.

 

[Rooster booster]

He was at camp where they use dogs. I am only the messenger but had to relate it because like I said, he knows how to swing a shotgun! I thought it strange also and it is why it stuck in my mind. I use 1 oz #6s from a 20 gauge with IC & Mod chokes. However, I don't hit grouse nearly as well as he does and never will.

I’m not sure my teeth would like 9’s😬