You know the gun is safe, the problem stems from the fact that others have no way of knowing that simply by observation. A pump or semi-auto looks the same empty as it does with a shell in the chamber. On clays courses such guns must be carried with the bolt open, just as break action guns must be open for safety of others.

 

All shotguns are equally safe if pointed in a safe direction. A gun without a cartridge in the chamber is worthless for instant use.

Objectives You will learn about 1) the safe methods needed when handling firearms and 2) the proper care and storage of firearms. Introduction Many Americans own firearms. It is very necessary that they be handled properly to avoid accidents. Become familiar with the requirements for safe handling and storage of firearms. All firearms should be treated as if they are loaded. NEVER POINT A GUN AT ANY PERSON.
Ten Commandments of Firearm Safety The following is a list of basic rules to follow when handling firearms.
1. Always POINT the muzzle in a safe direction. Be able to CONTROL the direction of the muzzle even if you should stumble.
2. Treat every firearm as though it were LOADED.
3. UNLOAD firearms when they are not in use. Keep the action open when the firearm is stored and carry it in a case to the shooting area.
4. Be sure the barrel and action are CLEAR of obstruction and that you have the PROPER ammunition for the firearms you are carrying.
5. Be sure of your TARGET before you pull the trigger.
6. Never POINT a firearm at anything you do not want to shoot. Avoid all horseplay with a firearm.
7. Never CLIMB a fence, tree, or JUMP a ditch with a loaded firearm. Never PULL a firearm toward you by the muzzle.
8. Never SHOOT a bullet at a flat, hard surface or at water.
9. Store firearms and ammunition SEPARATELY.
10. AVOID alcohol and other drugs before or during shooting.

 

Gun safety, when the gun is operationally safe of course, is always in the control of the shooter....ie personal responsibility.

On a clays course, displaying an empty chamber is a consideration toward others and there would be no need for a chambered round unless on station ready to go...no need for a round other than in a pouch or chamber in other words.

Hunting, which may be your concern...can be different and would center around the particulars of the moment.
Not sure of the lack of practicality or comfort in carrying a broken open shotgun but, shells could fall out or chaff enter, I reckon but I find no problem with either.
Again, the particulars matter...walking back to the truck being different than expecting game...kinda commonsense relative to need.
The rules that always exist in any particular are those of muzzle direction, etc., etc.

I will say that a break-open shotgun is much quicker to be made safe around a birddog...when that need arises.
There...speed can be important.
Those guns are also much easier to make convenient or safe and then reload again, when in country where up and down, over and under is part of the drill.
Necessary in that last case?..no, but certainly easier.

IF, you are new to the activity then I would be less concerned with either practicality or speed and more focused upon worst case, especially around a birddog..if they are in the mix.
Birddogs always hold trump. :idea:

 

Multiflora is spot on!

I go on 2 or more guided hunts every Fall. In those cases when around a guide's dogs, they to a man, appreciate a break open gun over all others for the reasons stated above. Yes, they will guide clients with repeaters, but prefer the doubles for making a gun completely safe anytime there is a need to stop. There are dozens of other times while hunting when a gun needs to be made safe before proceeding.

I used to go on group pheasant hunts in SD, and found that besides a double; a Browning Auto 5 was very safe and very convenient to use. I would simply engage the magazine cut-off and then jack the shell out of the chamber. Upon getting to our new area to hunt, I was quickest to load by simply disengaging the magazine cut-off and the Speed Feed system on those great old guns would have me ready while others were still fumbling around for a shell.

That being ready almost immediately came in handy a couple of times! The much newer V3 has a useful magazine cut-off but no Speed Feed. It is also quite handy but not as quick as the Browning system.

 

Break action guns are very comfortable to carry when broken open, the action fits in the crook of your elbow nicely. I carry it that way when bird hunting over pointers as the birds stay still until the cockers are sent in to flush; more than ample time to close the action and be ready.

 

It's easier to determine that a pump gun's action is open and safe than it is an autoloader cause it's easier for a person in the firearm's proximity to see that the slide is in the rearward position (action is open). With an autoloader/semi-auto one would need to be looking at the ejection port side of the shotgun to be able to confirm that it is in an open condition.

When walking around any target shooting range, the action (of whatever type) must always be open and there should be no rounds in the magazine or chamber(s). The easiest type of shotgun for anyone in its proximity to determine that it is in a safe condition is the break-open type shotguns. One can observe and determine that someone is carrying a break-open shotgun with the action open from hundreds of yards away. Not so with the other action types. A break-action shotgun is also quicker and easier to open and it is easier for a range officer to confirm such if/when the range officer gives the command to "make the line safe".

When hunting, it is SOP to "load up" (load your chamber(s) and/or magazine), while your safety in on, upon entering the game's habitat. Muzzles are always pointed in a safe direction and the safety is pushed off only after game has been flushed or you are in the process of sighting in on what you have visually confirmed is your game animal. As previously alluded to, any hunting dog is to be treated as if it is another person with regards to safe gun handling. Also, many modern break action shotguns have automatic safeties which are automatically engaged when the action is opened. This is a nice feature for beginning hunters and anyone who might get too excited to remember to re-engage the safety after shooting at game and reloading.

For home defense, how you keep your shotgun's readiness will and should be determined by your circumstances. The presence or the likelihood of presence of children or other adults who may not be trained or familiar with firearm safety rules should be carefully considered and weighed against your perceived security needs. When my son was young, all my firearms were locked up and empty. Now that I don't have any children in my house, a loaded firearm is much more accessible. I have even placed a readily observable note in my gun safe for whomever will be cleaning it out after I pass. It reads, "Danger, all firearms are loaded, handle with extreme care." Now, not all the firearms in my safe are loaded (some are) but I want whoever handles them to treat them all like they are. I believe my responsibility for the safe handling of my firearms does not immediately end with my passing.

 

I'm 73, been shooting since I was 8.
I have never felt unsafe around people with any kind of gun unless the bearer was behaving in an unsafe manner. Limiting things to a type of action, or touting one type over another is purely self serving.

 

I'm 73, been shooting since I was 8.

I'm sorry to hear that you have squandered the first seven years of your life.

 

Wait, do BB guns count ?

 

Hi. I am relatively new to shotguns or let me say recently I have become much more interested in shotguns so I have done a lot of reading/youtube vids...etc...

Well, for starters, you didn't say what being interested in shotguns means, whether you are musing home defense, hunting, or target games. Some have assumed you are pondering going hunting for something or other. No one was ever wounded by a shotgun (or any other firearm) pointed in a safe direction.

Walking around with a broken-open gun is very poor in many circumstances. Going through brush and thick cover, it is a great opportunity to fill your barrels with all kinds of interesting materials, and snag yourself on all kinds of things. Racking a pump gun in the turkey blind is good for unintended turkey conservation.

For about the last 120 years, autoloading shotguns have been proven extremely safe and extremely effective.

 

I go on 2 or more guided hunts every Fall. In those cases when around a guide's dogs, they to a man, appreciate a break open gun over all others for the reasons stated above. Yes, they will guide clients with repeaters, but prefer the doubles for making a gun completely safe anytime there is a need to stop. There are dozens of other times while hunting when a gun needs to be made safe before proceeding.

Apparently, being a guide in some areas does not require any common sense. Instantly jacking a round out of a semi-auto or pump requires no great skill. That quick, simple action should elude no one.

 

Gun safety is the person, not the gun. You have to have good habits.
I'm absolutely certain that there is a verifiable accidental death that can be attributed to any type of shotgun, based on action type.
It's actually very comfortable to carry an O/U, or SxS, in the crook of your arm while walking.
IF you hunt with dogs, you can often time leave the shells in your pocket until the dog tells you it's time to load them.
I've been hunting with an O/U for over 40 years now, and it's a very comfortable carry. But I also know that once loaded, it is no more, or less safe, than any other type.
The best safety in the world is only as safe as the person using it.

A big +1 to the post about treating the dog just like a human.

 

Automobiles have never been safer. Last year, less miles were driven. YET: Motor Vehicle Deaths in 2020 Estimated to be Highest in 13 Years, Despite Dramatic Drops in Miles Driven

A 24% spike in roadway death rates is highest in 96 years;https://www.nsc.org/newsroom/motor-vehicle-deaths-2020-estimated-to-be-highest . For the first time since 2007, preliminary data from the National Safety Council show that as many as 42,060 people are estimated to have died in motor vehicle crashes in 2020.

Who thinks it was just bad tires or stick shifts?

 

ofar81,

Actually your statement about the Breech open being unsafe is not true. Again safety training is the most important part of using any double gun. Having grown up in a bird hunting family, predominantly Grouse, Woodcock and Pheasants we were taught the proper way to use our double hammer guns was to walk with the breech open and the hammers cocked. The other discipline we learned is that you are not the dog, you do not bust brush, that is the dogs job. This thought of not hunting with the breech open because you might get something in your gun, never really happens when you have been trained properly to use your gun, no matter what part of the woods you are in, or how dense the habitat is. Our family has hunted with Breech open Hammer guns sense double guns were invented. Not one accident in 0ver 150 plus years, even when a hunter fell. Training & experience are the keys in safety and all other aspects of hunting. In reality hunting with the breech open is one of the safest ways a sportsman can hunt. Before the Hammerless guns were created, this was the traditional way of carry a double gun, and the safest also.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

 

I go on 2 or more guided hunts every Fall. In those cases when around a guide's dogs, they to a man, appreciate a break open gun over all others for the reasons stated above. Yes, they will guide clients with repeaters, but prefer the doubles for making a gun completely safe anytime there is a need to stop. There are dozens of other times while hunting when a gun needs to be made safe before proceeding.

Apparently, being a guide in some areas does not require any common sense. Instantly jacking a round out of a semi-auto or pump requires no great skill. That quick, simple action should elude no one.

Except that some folks load 1, 2, or 3 and many do not remember how many are in there. We get your bias to repeaters, Randy; the years have shown that - and in the hands of an experienced person like yourself, it is not an issue. But when Billy Bob gets that new repeater, he might not be as familiar as you

 

Can you name them?

Repeaters are, by far, the most popular guns in use in the United States. Popularity is not bias, popularity is reality. You can call it the evil bias of John Browning, the nasty bias of American sportsmen, what suits you . . . but, they are very easy to use, as safe as any other firearm, and they are overwhelmingly the People's Choice.

Some want AR-15's banned, they want Glock and Glock-style handguns banned, and would prefer that there are no gun hunters or gun owners at all. That may be the proclivity of the EU and the U.K., but it is inconsistent both with reality and "... shall not be infringed."

 

Can you name them?

Repeaters are, by far, the most popular guns in use in the United States. Popularity is not bias, popularity is reality. You can call it the evil bias of John Browning, the nasty bias of American sportsmen, what suits you . . . but, they are very easy to use, as safe as any other firearm, and they are overwhelmingly the People's Choice.

Some want AR-15's banned, they want Glock and Glock-style handguns banned, and would prefer that there are no gun hunters or gun owners at all. That may be the proclivity of the EU and the U.K., but it is inconsistent both with reality and "... shall not be infringed."

No need to work in gun ownership rights and concerns, especially abroad, as support fodder when there appears a difference arising between break-open shotguns and "repeaters".
Safety..has already been noted to be most involved with individual decisions rather than with the action type carried.
Nor is popularity of a shotgun's action a determiner that forces or should force....a decision upon any hunter or shooter.

I often carry semi-autos and pumps afield.....have actually arrived at preferring a 16 gauge model 37 for pheasants and the same in an Auto 5 for ruffed grouse.
I also know that my Fox is easier and quicker when in rough country sliding down hills and scrambling up, over and over again.....as noted before, not necessary but definitely brings ease to the activity....even nicer when the tailgate opens or falls.
Move a lever...two out....two in...close.
Deal-breaker?...no, but reality is swell.
I also know a break-open is easier and quicker to make safe around a dog....experience of the shooter notwithstanding....just is.
Had a friend's setter have a seizure, actually more than once.....so much finer to nearly instantly and truly make that gun ultimately safe in a stressful situation when all that is required is zip...two out.
There are numerous other plusses when a birddog is paws down.
For those plusses and reasons, I often switch up gun choice based upon the particulars of the day....which may well be a good employment of Commonsense.

Were I a guide with dogs, I can't say that I would prefer one action type to be carried but around strangers, no matter the experience, I might well feel better with a break-open involved....it would also reduce those out to impress fellow shooters with trigger or shucking speed skills ....sadly, there are all manner of folks out and about and for reasons beyond being there.
Problems do occur when poor decisions to impress or poorer decisions in handling are made with a shotgun....that, should be the take-away here rather than action preference, performance or popularity, eh?
A better take-away than that of pimping gun choice....be it semi-auto or SxS.

 

I prefer not to have break action guns in the duck blind.

 

Thank you all for your replies. I just want to say that I fully agree that the shooter is much more important than the particulars of the gun or safety practices followed. I mean Mr Dufus could have the best, safest gun and follow all 'safety protocols' for hours of hunting/ at a shooting range, but in the moment that counts do something stupid and in a split second discharge a round and kill his buddy....

 

The O/U has been enthusiastically used by the former Vice President of the United States, so that alone says something. Not sure what, it didn't help him get more quail, but his near-lethal wounding of an attorney garnered praise in some circles. The "Cheney-Perazzi 2008: Let's Give Them Another Shot" bumper stickers were an innovative approach to product branding. You can break open a break-open all you want, but that didn't stop Cheney from being a Dick.

Some of the greatest sports legends tend towards an old John Browning design, though.

[/quote]

 

The empty chamber, not the action type is the more important part as far as safety goes.

As for when to load the chamber, that happens when in an active hunting phase. There is no need for a chambered cartridge when just walking behind the dogs or walking towards a stand in pass shooting, more so when the gun is carried slung over the shoulders, slings can and do fail!

In field trials where game is shot the designated marksmen often use autos. When just carrying the gun they put an empty shell vertically in the ejection port and lower the bolt onto it, thus showing to all around them that the gun is safe. It is an easy way to let refs and participants relax and concentrate on dog handling and judging. American dog handler Don Leavitt told me something similar happens in the States, his favorite shotgun in field trials being an 870 pump because it is the most practical to carry with an empty chamber.

 

The O/U has been enthusiastically used by the former Vice President of the United States, so that alone says something. Not sure what, it didn't help him get more quail, but his near-lethal wounding of an attorney garnered praise in some circles. The "Cheney-Perazzi 2008: Let's Give Them Another Shot" bumper stickers were an innovative approach to product branding. You can break open a break-open all you want, but that didn't stop Cheney from being a Dick.

Some of the greatest sports legends tend towards an old John Browning design, though.

[/quote]

Thanks for posting that picture Randy. It demonstrates my point. Can anyone tell from that photo if that shotgun's action is open? Would you feel comfortable at camp with the Sultan of Swing swinging that thing around? From the photographer's vantage point, I wouldn't. Now if that was a break open action shotgun and the action was open everyone in that lodge would know it and be a lot more comfortable.

 

Thanks for posting that picture Randy. It demonstrates my point. Can anyone tell from that photo if that shotgun's action is open? Would you feel comfortable at camp with the Sultan of Swing swinging that thing around? From the photographer's vantage point, I wouldn't. Now if that was a break open action shotgun and the action was open everyone in that lodge would know it and be a lot more comfortable.

Babe Ruth was the "Sultan of Swat", not to be confused with the popular Dire Straits song.

 

deleted double post.

 

twohigh,

While I understand your point, and I agree breech loading guns are probably the most safe weapons ever developed. It is important to hunt & shoot Clays with the sportsman that you know are safety conscious and know how to use their guns properly. In fact hunting is one of the safest sports, with so few accidents that Basketball and down hill skiing are a lot more dangerous, then hunting or shooting Clays. The insurance claims prove it. Just because you can not see if the gun is unloaded or if the safety is on, does not mean the gun is unsafe. Further every gun is to be treated as if it is loaded at all times. Education is a big factor when handling a gun of any kind. All guns are safe when handled properly, no gun by itself has ever killed anybody. People kill people, not guns, whether by accident or on purpose.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C.Smith Man

Gun safety is a learned operation. Handling a gun properly while hunting on a snow covered mountain is definitely a learned talent. Even with a light snow it can be very slippery while Grouse hunting.

Ken Graft receives his Grouse from Pine Creek Ryman Daisy, notice the breech on his Beautiful Parker double gun is open as the Grouse is delivered to his hand. This is definitely a learned event. The Grouse dog sits, waiting until being released by command. All part of disciplined safe Grouse hunting.