Steve- very tempting but I'm looking at an Arrieta that is sort of trying to sweet-talk me.

 

And it's congrats to Mountain Dave, new owner of an MU Model 108 {hs#

 

Folks,

Here's some trivia. Of the four MU Model 108 guns I kept data on, they are four different guns. By 'different guns', I mean the model designation '108' doesn't see to have much meaning based on physical characteristics. Here is some data (the nine digit numbers are GB auction numbers, for those who want to look for themselves).

208835661
SLNE
No side clips
Gas relief valves in action bosses
Top screw centric
Side lock screw left to right
X*1 (1978)

213382433
SLNE
No side clips
No gas relief valves in action bosses
Top screw excentric
Side lock screw right to left
Q1 (1972)

213694225
SLE
No side clips
Gas relief valves in action bosses
Top screw centric
Side lock screw left to right
X*1 (1978)

214463789
SLE
Side clips
No gas relief valves in action bosses
Top screw excentric
Side lock screw right to left
N*1 (1968)

Also, while similar, when closely examined there are four different engraving patterns on the guns.

 

Steve,

I just now saw this and am glad that I didn't step on your toes. Thank you, this one spoke to me.

When I get more time, I'll have to check those links out - thanks Kyrie. I did notice the eccentric screw and the right-to-left through-bolt (despite the gun being obviously set up for a righty). I love to know all about a gun's history, particularly the oddities, that's part of the package as far as I'm concerned and makes them more valuable to me.

MD

 

I love to know all about a gun's history, particularly the oddities, that's part of the package as far as I'm concerned and makes them more valuable to me.
MD

I feel the same way, or I'd not have noticed the differences {hs#

 

Congrats Dave! I think you will find that to be a very nice gun.

 

Thanks guys, this will be a fun project for the summer!

I checked the links and saved them as they only last 90 days on GB. In my mind this speaks to the individuality of every gun produced - they are like snowflakes: no two exactly alike. I'm interested to know, however, what designated those guns as "Modelo 108". The gas vents, barrel clipping, and stock setup all seem to be "optional". The engraving, despite subtle variations (particularly on the bottom of the receiver), is fairly similar. None of them have tear-drops, although one has the wood come to a point at the back of the sidelocks. Odd that the through-bolts vary in orientation. They all seem to be 7-pin sidelocks, if I'm not mistaken.

We'll have to compare notes further on this when the gun arrives, Kyrie. {hs#

MD

 

Model 112

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =207632075

Model 108

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =208835661

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =214463789

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =213382433

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =213694225

 

Where did all these "bargain" Spanish sidekicks come from? Think somebody prowled every pawnshop in Eibar until he bought a boatload?.

 

Where did all these "bargain" Spanish sidekicks come from? Think somebody prowled every pawnshop in Eibar until he bought a boatload?.

Covered by a previous thread. Short version: Spanish gun laws changed two years ago, people turned their guns into the Guardia Civil, Guardia Civil auctioned them off. Century Arms (and a couple of others...Duffy's, et al) imported them and sold them to dealers. Dealers have been selling them at auction cheaply.

No pawn shops in Spain.

 

That 112 was an interesting one - it looked like coin finish on the fences, but had nice color on the sidelocks and the engraving was quite beautiful. Hand detachable with yet another right-to-left through-bolt.

MD

 

Hey, MD. I'll give you $350 for the gun you just got stuck with!

 

I'd trade you for your $325 Mendicute, but I'm not a big fan of 16 ga. :wink:

MD

 

I'd trade you for your $325 Mendicute, but I'm not a big fan of 16 ga. :wink:

MD

You got me there!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

They all seem to be 7-pin sidelocks, if I'm not mistaken.MD

Errrr... One three out of four of the M108's I'm seeing only four pins. One the forth gun, I might be seeing five pins.

Double errrr. Let me correct that. I'm seeing two guns with four pin locks, and maybe two guns (213694225, 214463789) with five pin locks. The possible five pin locks have the fifth pin in a really odd location, so it may not actually be a pin.

 

Oh. So we are buying the shotguns that the Spanish people were dragooned onto selling to their government,,,or else what? What "incentives" did they have to sell?

(Sucks to be them,,,but I am curious.

 

What happened is that they were required to buy gun safes to store their guns and the license fees almost tripled and had to be completed yearly. It became very expensive to have the guns. Many of the young people turned in their guns as did folks who no longer hunted because the cost of hunting went up also and the economy was tanking at the same time. They could keep them if they had them demilled. Rather than do that, they just turned them in and let the Guardia Civil keep them. The Guardia Civil sold them at auction. here is an example of the auctions currently going on in Spain.

Rules to own guns:
http://www.guardiacivil.org/quesomos/or ... ones/icae/

Auctions:
http://www.guardiacivil.org/quesomos/or ... bastas.jsp

 

OK, now I need to get "edumacated". I've highlighted some things in one, but SGW is giving me fits uploading things... stay tuned...

 

A question about pins.

What is the difference between a five pin and a seven pin sidelock? Is it a quality issue (more pins are better)? Is it a design issue--one a game gun and the other a pigeon gun? I went to the Arieta website and couldn't find any information and looked through the Ugartechea catalog, but couldn't figure anything out from them.

Thanks.

 

See this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=126&t=206181

A question about pins.

What is the difference between a five pin and a seven pin sidelock? Is it a quality issue (more pins are better)? Is it a design issue--one a game gun and the other a pigeon gun? I went to the Arieta website and couldn't find any information and looked through the Ugartechea catalog, but couldn't figure anything out from them.

Thanks.

 

Kyrie--

Thanks for the reference to those pictures. You are a very generous guy to share your knowledge so freely. Agree that thread should become a sticky.Thanks again.

ApacheC

 

You're very welcome

As an aside, I don't see myself as generous; I just feel we're all in this together. It costs me nothing to try to help, not trying might cost me self respect. I'd just as soon avoid that.

 

Let's take a quick look at a pair of photos graciously provided by Kyrie:

Victor Sarasqueta 5 pin lock

In the top photo I see SIX "little things" sticking through the plate, and one big "thing", the cocking indicator. When looking at at the other side, I see only three screws and five posts/pegs, not counting the one I know is at the bend of the V-spring. Forgive me for being ignorant, but what counts as a pin and what doesn't? Does it have something to do with what can be unscrewed or removed? :?

Confused,

MD

 

We're borrowing the term "pin" from the English gun trade, where it is used to denote a screw.

When we look at the outside of a lock and talk about 'pins', we're counting the ends of screws ('pins') that can be seen. If we turn the lock over and look at the other side in an attempt to match up screw heads and their ends, we may not be able to do so. There can be several reasons that we can't see the head of a screw; it may be hidden under the bridle or some other part, the screw head may have been removed to save space, what we thought was a screw may actually have been a post, or something else entirely.

All of which, taken in conjunction with the relative lack of importance of the number of pins in a lock, tells us that this is a subject where there is really less than meets the eye. The number of pins we can see just gives us a general idea of how the lock *might* be constructed.

That's my take on the subject...

 

Yes, indeed. Think about it from a construction/durability viewpoint. The less something moves and the less pieces you have to accomplish the same function, the less wear points you have. The key is to find the balance to the number of wear points, stress points and amount of stress and number of parts.

But in this case, I believe it is more of a designer issue. In other words, the fellow felt he could accomplish what he wanted with a lock of 7 pins vs 5 pins. Over the years, the British shooter would sing the praises of one style of lock over another and myth and legend have become have become entangled with design. Remember, many of these designs were done when the quality (or better said the consistency of quality) of steel was unreliable and quality control was a factor of the experience of the Master Maker and his oversight.

The important factors of which is better is reliability, durability, and simplicity. Whether that is 4, 5 or 7 pins is often best discussed (and never resolved) over adult beverages in front of a fire amongst friends and shooting companions as it is what adds flavor to ownership of something as unique as English (and their Spanish copies) sidelock guns.