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Steel Shot Scientific Research

7.1K views 37 replies 24 participants last post by  RandyWakeman  
#1 ·
I'm extremely impressed with this site. It has a professional appearance. Based upon my few days' pursuing posts, members have thorough knowledge of shotguns and shotgun sports.

I haven't hunted upland game in decades; add at least another decade for waterfowl hunting. Last time I hunted waterfowl, there were rumors of banning lead shot.

CA has a long history of draconian responses to everything. Based upon what I've been told, all lead ammo is forbidden in CA when hunters are in pursuit of all game. The next step will be a ban on recreational shooting of lead ammo to include private property (indoor shooting rangers).

The rationale purportedly justifying banning lead was illness and death caused to especially birds that ingested it. Apparently those in the know who know such things believed it preferable to prevent birds from ingesting lead shot to birds wounded by steel shot that kept flying only do die a painful death later. I have no clue how the omniscient were able to scientifically conclude that dead birds that were not shot died of lead poisoning caused by ingesting lead shot to the exclusion of all other possible causes of death.

I was in a Rocky Mountain elk camp some six years ago where I heard one of the guides complain that copper bullets made pencil holes in big game. He believed that lead core bullets were superior in causing quick, humane death to big game animals. One of the preliminary questions my guide asked me related to ammo I was using. I used Partitions. He replied that Partitions were excellent big game bullets.

Does anyone know whether scientific research has been conducted to determine efficacy of shot other than lead? Is there scientific proof that banning lead shot has caused flocks to be healthier? In other words, if lead had not been banned, would there be a difference in numbers of game and non-game animals? Has banning lead shot caused the desired effect to the exclusion of confounding factors?

Based upon my experience in game fields, wild animals are fastidious when it comes to what they'll eat.
 
#5 ·
https://www.themeateater.com/conservati ... feral-cats

The Problem
This debate was reignited last year by a bombshell report published in Science. Researchers estimated that North America has seen the cumulative loss of three billion birds since 1970-a 30% reduction in the total avian population.

"I think it's reasonable to conclude that cat predation is a contributing factor, especially as it is the top source of direct, human-caused bird mortality in the U.S. and Canada," Grant Sizemore told MeatEater.

Sizemore is the director of invasive species programs at the American Bird Conservancy. He views the free-roaming cat issue as one of the most serious conservation crises in North America.

An estimated 60 million unowned cats roam the United States, along with another 60 to 88 million owned cats. A 2013 study determined that free-ranging cats account for 1.3 to 4 billion bird deaths and 6.3 to 22.3 billion mammal deaths every year. Since the year 1500, free-roaming cats have contributed to the extinction of 63 species worldwide, according to a separate 2016 study.
It is a large topic and lead is only a small part of it. Single use plastics kill birds and mammals, so do discarded face masks, so do wind farms. The biggest factor, however, remains habitat loss.
 
#7 ·
BobK said:
Randy, the thread is "Steel Shot Scientific Research". Quit adding "other topics" into the mix - it only causes more confusion.

You really have to
. Already cited, there has been extremely substantial research: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6675766/ .

There are 128 cited sources alone in the above. That is more than enough to satisfy anyone looking for research.

References

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If someone wanted to get belatedly cranked up on lead, there are plenty of sources to read. Looking singularly at lead shot is misleading. If the idea is healthy game and wildlife populations, you have to consider unowned cats, windmills, disease, and habitat loss. It isn't a simplistic as steel good, lead bad, not remotely close.

Often, the very stuff steel shot is coated with to prevent rusting (zinc, cadmium, etc.) is also toxic to birds: "Heavy Metal Toxicosis." https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/m ... -in-birds/ .
 
#8 ·
#9 ·
I believe lead shot is still legal to use on waterfowl in some central/South American countries.
 
#10 ·
I believe that baiting remains a south american option of delivering targets on a convenient schedule to waterfowl shooters.
Whether that bothers is most a personal issue....I believe it should be a larger issue but, oh, well.

Lead shot vs. some waterfowl and under some conditions of deposition has been shown to have a detrimental effect.
Upland game birds?....not really.
The problem of lead or non-tox too often remains one of assumption tracking agenda rather than that of applying commonsense and real world.

Copper, for example, bullets may find efficiency based upon both placement and distance, jmho. Also, Progress in designing copper or whatever bullets, as with steel pellets imo, is an ever on-going process.
I do suspect that CA interest was tied a bit to condor issues and condors being less than widespread in that area.....jumps through open doors then followed tho I do not believe that condors are fastidious...nor are dabblers.

That said, lead hatred is over-blown in many hunting situations but will however never revert to becoming a non-issue.
 
#12 ·
If your question is purely out of curiosity there's more then enough material here to keep you busy for awhile. However if your considering getting back to a bit of bird hunting,and you want to shoot your old guns I would highly recommend Bismuth. It is very close to lead in performance. It's what I shoot in my fixed choke guns.
 
#13 ·
In general, many elements can be toxic to animals and humans in excessive levels. Heavy metals such as lead, mercury, antimony, copper, tin, iron, and others, in excess, cause metabolic issues. These issues can be intestinal, circulatory, kidney, liver, and brain related. The results of excessive intake are terrible. Some are expelled faster than others, as long as the kidneys and liver are functioning well. Some may stay residual and slowly build to toxic levels.

Iron is required in the formation of the heme complex that is the base of hemoglobin found in red blood cells, however, an excess of iron is toxic. Lead and other cationic metals can interfere with the assimilation of iron ultimately into the bone marrow (ferritin) stores that supply the heme mechanism. Interference with this mechanism causes various degrees of anemia (to include fatal) due to poor respiratory transport of oxygen into the body and carbon dioxide out of the body tissues.

Lead was removed from paints and gasoline (anti-knock additives) because of the negative effects upon humans and, by extension, animals.

As to the original question of the efficacy of steel shot, before I stopped duck hunting years ago I went through the transition from lead to steel shot. Remington Nitromag and Winchester Super X were my lead shells in 2&3/4 or 3 inch. The dependable kill range for big ducks shortened with steel, but if you recognized that and adjusted to it the results were still good. Decoy setting strategy had to change with "landing zones" closer to the blind.

JB
 
#15 ·
1911-A1 said:
Has banning lead shot caused the desired effect to the exclusion of confounding factors?
If the desired effect was to make many choke shotguns obsolete, 2-3/4 inch chambers obsolete, and anything smaller than a 12 gauge obsolete, along with raising the cost of ammunition . . . it has been a fabulous success.
 
#16 ·
Rubberhead,

I am a scientist and I take NO offense to that statement because I don't completely trust every scientist, or their data, either. Any job, endeavor, sport, business, philanthropic group, religious group, social group, interpersonal relationship, or general event of life doesn't have 100% of its participants that are completely trustworthy for various reasons. Some participants may be nefarious, ignorant, self-serving, misinformed, or too proud to admit to being erroneous.

Trust is a commodity we all possess and should guard well. Being skeptical and demanding supporting information from others is not an insult, but an indication that you give them enough credence to want to evaluate what they present.

JB
 
#17 ·
Take-5-JB said:
Rubberhead,

I am a scientist and I take NO offense to that statement because I don't completely trust every scientist, or their data, either. Any job, endeavor, sport, business, philanthropic group, religious group, social group, interpersonal relationship, or general event of life doesn't have 100% of its participants that are completely trustworthy for various reasons. Some participants may be nefarious, ignorant, self-serving, misinformed, or too proud to admit to being erroneous.

Trust is a commodity we all possess and should guard well. Being skeptical and demanding supporting information from others is not an insult, but an indication that you give them enough credence to want to evaluate what they present.

JB
I nominate this post as 'Post of the Week'. Can I get an 'AMEN!'?
Image
 
#18 ·
Take-5-JB said:
Rubberhead,

I am a scientist and I take NO offense to that statement because I don't completely trust every scientist, or their data, either. Any job, endeavor, sport, business, philanthropic group, religious group, social group, interpersonal relationship, or general event of life doesn't have 100% of its participants that are completely trustworthy for various reasons. Some participants may be nefarious, ignorant, self-serving, misinformed, or too proud to admit to being erroneous.

Trust is a commodity we all possess and should guard well. Being skeptical and demanding supporting information from others is not an insult, but an indication that you give them enough credence to want to evaluate what they present.

JB
Yeah, the biggest problem is a nearly complete lack of integrity.
 
#22 ·
The only times I have run steel through any of my barrels has been by accident, having grabbed more than a few of the wrong flats of shells over the years. When I finally have noticed, sometimes after a few hundred rounds, I have set them aside and found the lead ammo. I've noticed no difference in performance or scoring of any kind from the steel shot. I'm just not going to worry about it any more. These short videos have reassured me of that.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... oors+steel
 
#33 · (Edited)
...I've noticed no difference in performance or scoring of any kind from the steel shot. I'm just not going to worry about it any more. These short videos have reassured me of that.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... oors+steel
Indeed. Based on what I've read, steel shot was much harder in it's early days of development, so I think a lot of the concerns about barrel scoring and other damage is born out of those times. From what I've read in the Lyman reloading manual, during the early days of steel shot development, plastic hulls, and more importantly, plastic wads wads hadn't yet been developed, so all of the guns that sufferd damaged barrels were the result of fiber wads being used and probably, according to the manual, steel shot that was likely harder than that used today. The fact that Nick Horten has been able to fire steel through old guns using fiber wads without any damage occuring would seem to serve as a proof positive that the manufacturers have indeed "reformulated" their steel, technically iron, shot. I probably wouldn't fire steel shot using a fiber wad through an older gun, just to play it safe, but I wouldn't be worried about modern steel loads, with their protective shot cups damaging a barrel. I would be more concerned with pressures. Since it takes pushing a load of steel pellets to 1400-1500 FPS to get simialr performance to an equivalent lead load, I would be more worried about an older gun being able to handle the higher pressures. That and choke constriction on a fixed choke. That said, it would seem Nick has shown that the higher pressures aren't an issue either.
 
#23 ·
Virginian said:
Banning lead was purely political and had the desired effect of most things environmental - raise prices and cause pain to others.
Tungsten shot was indeed superior to even lead, but prices on that have gone astronomical.
Steel can work if you can control your range.
Superior ballistically, sure, but not dentally. Steel and hard Tungsten are dangerous to both barrels and mouths.
 
#24 ·
RandyWakeman said:
BobK said:
Randy, the thread is "Steel Shot Scientific Research". Quit adding "other topics" into the mix - it only causes more confusion.

In Chef Speak...
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Juournel ouff FEEsh und Vildleeffe-a Muonegement. 2017;8:465-473. dui: 10.3996/122015-JFVM-124. [CrussReff] [Guogle-a Schuler] Zimmer MC, Ousier TL. Leed cuncentretiuns in vheete-a-teeled deer tissuoe-a duoe-a tu reteened buollets. Huomuon-Vildleeffe-a Interectiuns. 2018;12:444-448. [Guogle-a Schuler] Iff sumeune-a vuonted tu get beletedly cruonked up oun leed, zeere-a ire-a plenty ouff suources tu reed. Luokeeng singuolerly it leed shut is meesleedeeng. Iff zee-a idea is heelthy geme-a und vildleeffe-a pupuoletiuns, yuou hefe-a tu cunsider unuoned cets, vindmeells, deeseese-a, und hebeetet luss. It isn't a simpleestic is steel guod, leed bed, nut remutely cluse-a. Oufftee-a, zee-a fery stuoff steel shut is cueted vit tu prefent ruosting (zinc, cedmeeuom, itc.) is ilsu tuxic tu burds: "Heefy Metel Tuxicusis." https://vvv.mspca.ourg/ungell_serfices/m ... -in-burds/ . Bork Bork Bork!

 
#25 ·
Flyingtargets! said:
What about using one of the non steel alternatives?
Hi Tournament Circle,

I have considered using she other than lead and steel. I have no clue whether anything other than lead shot is suitable for my shotguns, the newest of which is probably close to 50 years-old.

My dad loved waterfowl hunting. He used to use 2.75" magnum rounds.I still have a couple boxes. My shotguns have 2.75" chambers. In complete honesty, I have no clue whether there are suitable, non-lead 2.75" rounds that would be suitable for waterfowl.

My opinion is lead shot should be scientifically researched to determine wether quantifiable proof exists that lead shot is more harmful than all other shot metals including steel. Intuitively, assuming game and non-game animals ingest shot, steel shout would emit harmful toxins as digestive systems attempt to dissolve it.
 
#26 ·
My favorite shotgun for everything but geese (and even them in a pinch) is a 1941 Ithaca 37 in 16 gauge.Bismuth patterns very well out of it and one oz of 4's will kill kill ducks and pheasants out to 40 yards if I do my part. As for 12 gauge a 1 1/4 oz of #1 Bismuth kills geese at 50 yards no problem.