If form follows function and you're not all that interested in form anyway, It's your gun! It's as tough as a T-34 tank. It looks and handles like one too. (My opinion) Someone once told me it was an Eastern Block Superposed, might be pretty accurate.

Compare it to a Mosin-Nagant rifle, same kind of deal. Pretty it ain't, serviceable it is. I'd rather have one of them than one of those cheap Turkish guns., i.e.Yildez, and the other low end so called entry level OUs from Mossberg and others.

BP

 

I would assume you already know they are rough, but they work. I had one for 2 years and ran over 1,000 rounds through it, it worked fine, the person that bought it from me is still shooting it and uses it for a clays gun, he is happy with it.

cdb

 

My son used the Remington Spartan 310 version of that same gun in high school on the trap team. His had ~8k shots through it when he graduated and then sold it to a team member. As far as I know it is still shooting those birds. The break open was a little stiff when new. We took 8 rounds out of the ejector/extractor springs to make it open a little easier. No problem

 

It's a dog, but she hunts. If the looks don't bother you, go for it. It one of those guns, that if you ran out of shells and wanted to club something with it, you wouldn't have to feel bad about banging it up.

 

Had one. worked fine, wish I still had it!

 

I had one and they are heavy and clunky but built like a tank. For the price it would likely be my choice as a low end O/U again. I had the 20 ga and it was a little smaller than the 12 however.

 

I have three, in 20, 28. and 410, not pretty but they go bang at every trigger pull, and if I do my part, something falls from the sky. Wouldn't hesitate to buy another. When the weather is bad they go in the field while the nice guns stay where it's warm and dry.

 

"Someone once told me it was an Eastern Block Superposed, might be pretty accurate."

LOL

This sentence deserves a prize.

 

Solid is the most fitting term. My experience with them starts in 1968. I have dismantled and worked on hundreds of them. The only problems I have seen are with the single triggers and auto ejectros, so choose the simplest model with extractors and double triggers.

The IZ27 has intercepting sears, properly formed, hardened and chromed internals.

Baikals are designed from the start as inexpensive shotguns, they are not cheap copies of moderate or high priced guns. The difference is important at the low price range.

A British trained gunsmith in my area uses the IZ27 as the foundation for custom woodcock guns that weigh 2,6 kilos. He has done dozens of them, he regards them as the only low priced gun that offer a worthwhile foundation for his customising. I posted pics of them at the Baikal forum a while back.

 

Solid is the most fitting term. My experience with them starts in 1968. I have dismantled and worked on hundreds of them. The only problems I have seen are with the single triggers and auto ejectros, so choose the simplest model with extractors and double triggers.

The IZ27 has intercepting sears, properly formed, hardened and chromed internals.

Baikals are designed from the start as inexpensive shotguns, they are not cheap copies of moderate or high priced guns. The difference is important at the low price range.

A British trained gunsmith in my area uses the IZ27 as the foundation for custom woodcock guns that weigh 2,6 kilos. He has done dozens of them, he regards them as the only low priced gun that offer a worthwhile foundation for his customising. I posted pics of them at the Baikal forum a while back.

What was wrong with them that required you to work on hundreds of them?

 

Still waiting for an answer! :?

What was wrong with them that required all that work??

 

Still waiting for an answer! :?

What was wrong with them that required all that work??

Oh c'mon.....give the guy more than 1.5 hours to answer. He might be at work or have gone to the grocery store or something. Some people are not as addicted to SGW as we are.

 

Still waiting for an answer! :?

What was wrong with them that required all that work??

I think it was a recoil pad problem, that's why he suggested extractors and double triggers.

 

Worked does not always mean "repaired".

Most work was customising and internal polishing. In our part of the world internal polishing is similar to the American fetish with figured walnut, not really necessary but people are willing to go the trouble to do it.

Two things were weak in Baikals. The single trigger and the auto ejectors with that silly turning slot to convert from auto to manual. The double trigger, extractor models were and are reliable.

I did refer to customising for which the foundation must be worthwhile. The Baikals are a sound foundation precisly because they were engineered (I use the word in its technical sense) from the start to be inexpensive. They are not cheap copies of designs first made by hand and therefore unsuitable for mass production.

The IZ 27, which is the original poster's intended purchase, has a modfied Browning design, with full cross pin, full width underbolt and some bits not found in the original, like rebounding tumblers (hammers), intercepting safety, fully hardened and chromed internals. These are important features.

The barrels are monobloc and ribs are soft soldered. This is important if you are going to modify the barrels, ie change or remove ribs in custom jobs.

I have posted pics of customised Baikals before. If you do a search you can find them.

No, they will not turn into a Fabbri with custom work, but that is not the point, THe point is to get a superbly balanced, specialised shotgun (most often a woodcock gun) for about 1000 Euro. No other low cost shotgun can rival the Baikal as a foundation for that.

This link http://www.modernsportsman.com/Feb08Feature2.htm is an article describing the torture testing of Baikals at the Birmingham Proof House. Anyone know of other shotguns, inexpensive or otherwise that can stand the same test? Provide a link.

 

Now I have answered your question. Tell us how many Baikals and how many shotguns in general you have taken apart and looked at analytically. How do you test the sufficiency of fit in a double gun action, and how do you check for rib solders and other possible weak points?

 

I made the mistake of buying one, nothing but trouble!! Spent more time being repaired that in the field, that's not an exaggeration either! Had the gun 2 months in that time I was never able to shoot a full box of shells without something breaking or not working. If you really want to know about the reliability & longevity of this gun just ask Remington....Oh wait Remington dropped Baikal too, just too many issues.

 

....Oh wait Remington dropped Baikal too, just too many issues.[/quote]
And that may be due to the fact that Remington had them built to a price point! Compare the Baikal pre Remington and the one marketed by Remington.

 

wkd, not trying to start anything but? The gun I bought was a Baikal. And it failed to perform! Not a gun that was made for Remington by Baikal and built to a price point. So whats your point??

 

What exactly "broke" in your shotgun and rendered it inoperable? There is not much in a Baikal, either OU or SXS the parts are so few. The potential problems with auto ejectors and single triggers were outlined above. Automatic systems in any low cost shotgun are not a wise option choice. Baikals are simple mechanical systems, they have guided coil springs that work even when broken and the bits are over engineered and not at all fragile.

So, it is interesting to hear what broke.

The SXS, the model IZ43, is based on the Winchester Model 21 action. It is inherently a more robust and reliable system than the British Anson Deely which is the usual prototype cloned by the makers of most cheapo SXSs. Therefore it is fascinating to read Americans bad mouthing the Baikal and the British praising it.

Non partisan testers, ie the Birmingham Proof House and the French Proof House at Saint Etienne have put these guns to severe tests and attest to their toughness. Baikals passed the French superior proof at 1300 Bars to which they were voluntarily submitted by the French importers in addition to the Russian proof. The pressure is over twice the service pressure of normal field loads and 30 per cent more than European magnum loads. Neither proof house reports any failures of Baikals to pass proof.

They are ugly, roughly finished, slightly heavy for gauge, but fragile they are not. As delivered they are packed with a strange smelling grease and must be cleaned and relubed which is a lot less than some cheapo competitors need done.

 

We all know it is a cheap gun and ugly. But if thats what you can aford for a hunting gun get it. I'm sure it will last for some time. Baikal sold a lot of them.

 

Okay, I'll try to remember exactly what failed and in what order. It was half way through the first box of shells and it doubled twice. Got it back and then again after less than a box the bottom barrel refused to fire! So back it went.... Again. Then after almost going through a box of shells it would not open thankfully both barrels had been fired, by this time I was at the end of my rope with this gun and told the dealer. To his credit he offered me a full refund. I also think I had an issue with the safety not working also. My point is simple, I have owned many shotguns both pumps, auto's and O/U's and never had anything like the failures this gun had. Maybe I got a lemon but the gunsmith I talked with at Gander Mountain told me when they handled the Baikal O/U they were always in for service. Sorry but once was enough to convince me its not a well built gun.

 

Scott Carlson sold them for a long time at his store and said they never ahd issues with them. I've know many people who have had them and still do and no one had an issue I can remember. But thats the way it is once bitten twice shy.

 

Scott Carlson sold them for a long time at his store and said they never ahd issues with them. I've know many people who have had them and still do and no one had an issue I can remember. But thats the way it is once bitten twice shy.

Thanks for understanding, I will never own another one because of the issues! And in truth I would feel the same if it were a B gun.

 

I had similar experiences with another brand and despite many saying the issues have been taken care of I will never touch another one.

 

I can give you a shotgun snob's answer, or, I can tell you their pretty cool. They're pretty cool, just like an AK or SKS...