I have a bunch of the old Rem SP high brass hulls. I shoot them through my automatics and have no problems. But I do have extraction problems in my Citori O/U. I use a MEC with a collet resizer, but they still stick. Sometimes they fail to eject and sometimes they stick pretty firmly requiring a rod to dislodge them. If you stick with the auto, they may not be a problem. There are a multitude of other hulls which don't give this problem.

 

How come you never see any high brass hulls recommended in any reloading recipes? All I ever see are the Win. HS AA's, Rem.sts's, and nitro 27's. Are there any books that do recommend them?

I can make a guess. The short brass hulls are common and plentiful. They may also be better quality since the manufacturers know they will be reloaded. Brass is expensive. If they don't need high brass, why use it. Some shells are made with steel instead of brass. I think you can find data for high brass for pheasant, goose, turkey, and other large shot loads.

 

I know of no current manufactured "high" brass hulls in 12 ga. Most of the 28 ga hulls from Remington, Winchester and Federal probably would be considered High Brass, different animal.

Problems?

Yuper! They aren't brass, just steel with a brass wash. You can re size them all you please, they will still tend to "stick" in the chamber after firing much more than real brass and "low" brass.

In today's hull manufacture brass height has no bearing whatever on it's performance, at least positive.

Brass height has nothing whatever to do with having any "meat" to grab onto. Extractors grab onto the rim. It makes no difference whatever how high the brass is.

Most of today's "high" brass hulls are pretty much used for field loads. It's more of a tradition thing. But since tradition dictates high brass and hunting load hulls typically are not expected to be reloaded, you pretty much get crapola hulls with high brass washed steel heads/bases on them.

In 12 ga you can pretty much take it to the bank, that if it is a high brass hull it belongs in the dumpster.

You can load any high pressure load in a Remington or Winchester low brass AA or STS style target load hull that you could load in a high brass hull. In fact, the AAs and STSs are a far superior hull.

Good high brass hulls went the way of the of the unicorn when WW went away from the compression formed field shell hull, some loooong time ago! If you got'em you got good ones, if not, junk as best. Remington never made a 12ga plastic hull that had a brass high brass head on them. The first plastic hulls used in the Express Power Piston wad shells new in the early to mid '60s already had steel heads on them.

Is that enough?

BP

 

Didn't high brass carry over from when shotgun shells were paper? They needed the high brass to reinforce the paper hulls?
I heard that somewhere I think. Maybe here! I keep reading and learning.

 

Yuper! They aren't brass, just steel with a brass wash. You can re size them all you please, they will still tend to "stick" in the chamber after firing much more than real brass and "low" brass.

Mine do not stick in the chamber after firing.

You can load any high pressure load in a Remington or Winchester low brass AA or STS style target load hull that you could load in a high brass hull. In fact, the AAs and STSs are a far superior hull

.
I know the others are preffered, but I like the high brass as hunting loads.

Brass height has nothing whatever to do with having any "meat" to grab onto. Extractors grab onto the rim. It makes no difference whatever how high the brass is.

I like the higher brass rim on the high brass shells as opposed to the lower rim shells. I like having more rim than what is needed, especially in an automatic.

So, i guess you don't think that reloading highbrass is worth it.

 

Didn't high brass carry over from when shotgun shells were paper? They needed the high brass to reinforce the paper hulls?
I heard that somewhere I think. Maybe here! I keep reading and learning.

Yes you are correct sir..I am new to the hobby (So this is a very humble opinion) but I have read this exact point from many different sources (Not all internet based). In early paper hulls you would get burn thru with some 'magnum loads' hence the 'high brass', but the burn thru is not at issue with modern hull materials and construction. However...those who grew up with 'high brass' still wanted to see it...so it is still around.

 

This picture shows Western Mark 5 paper shells from 1959, with the new plastic shot collar, forerunner of the plastic wad colume. To the right is a box from about 1960 which shows the 1st year of the all plastic Winchester hull. Both of these are 'high-brass' #4 shot. These heads are all brass.

This is the bottom of the same boxes. Notice the right hand box shows the contruction of the all plastic compression formed hull.

I still have some of these old compression formed hulls with tall or high-brass which probably go back to the 1980's. Many, I recall, were buckshot loads purchased by the Navy. I don't reload them anymore simply because I see no need to but they do resize and function in any gun I have tried them in. They certainly work fine in a vintage LC Smith.

Burnt is dead on in his analogy, compression formed hull with ANY head height loads the same and is capable of handling the heaviest of loads. :wink: The reason manuals don't show loads for high brass shells is because there is no need... or Non-Applicable! :lol:

BTW, the left-hand box has a label on the inside that dates the stocking date to August 1959 and the price was $2.99 :shock: Duck loads for $3... don't we wish? :roll:

 

Most of the 'High-Brass' hulls you can get are very reloadable, but you need to use components designed for straight-wall hulls. They, all, have separate basewads from the hull-body. That, per se, is not a bad thing, but needs to be noted.

The highest BRASS hull is the Federal Gold Medal, and it's a 'middie'.

GS

 

BTW, the left-hand box has a label on the inside that dates the stocking date to August 1959 and the price was $2.99

I guess we don't really have all that bad with todays ammo prices. Adjusted for inflation that would be $21.75 today.

per http://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm

 

Most of the 'High-Brass' hulls you can get are very reloadable, but you need to use components designed for straight-wall hulls. They, all, have separate basewads from the hull-body. That, per se, is not a bad thing, but needs to be noted.

The highest BRASS hull is the Federal Gold Medal, and it's a 'middie'.

GS

Come on, GS, Higher than this??

 

I just wanna reload some winchester super-x high brass, and remington high brass shells. Does anybody know a recipe, or where to get a recipe for these shells?

 

I just wanna reload some winchester super-x high brass, and remington high brass shells.

If those are the current production Remington black Pheasant Load; they load the same as STSs and Gun Clubs.

 

And of course, there's always ... waaay-high BRASS.

GS

 

.

 

I just wanna reload some winchester super-x high brass, and remington high brass shells. Does anybody know a recipe, or where to get a recipe for these shells?

Sure. No problem, actually.

It's is a pretty straightforward build and documented, decently.

What powders & primers do you have on hand and how much lead & how fast do you want to sling it?

GS

 

I just wanna reload some winchester super-x high brass, and remington high brass shells. Does anybody know a recipe, or where to get a recipe for these shells?

For some reason, seems both Alliant and Hodgdon have omitted data for the "Remington-Peters Unibody SP" hull and the "Winchester Polyformed with Plastic Wad" hull when the uploaded data to their websites. That data was still available in booklet form from Alliant as late as 2005, the most recent I have. I don't know if Alliant still publishes a paper book and whether it's in there. There's more data in the 3rd edition of the Lyman book. I haven't seen the current 5th edition, but maybe it's in there as well.

 

I just wanna reload some winchester super-x high brass, and remington high brass shells.

If those are the current production Remington black Pheasant Load; they load the same as STSs and Gun Clubs.

Ok, that seems easy enough. What i'm having trouble with, is I see all these loads that recommend the win.hs aa's, rem. sts's, gunclubs, etc... But I dont see any recommendations for highbrass shells, so i'm confused on what highbrass shells I can substitute.

 

... But I dont see any recommendations for highbrass shells, so i'm confused on what highbrass shells I can substitute.

The REM hi-brass black game loads are STS/Gun Club type hulls.

The (current production) Winchester Super-X (like in the pic above) are the hi-brass version of the Universal hull, and load with AA-HS/CF data.

The (current production) Green or Blue Rem/Peters, as above, are two-piece, low plastic basewad straight-wall hulls and you can used FGM-Plastic data with them.

GS

 

txgunsiinger I have loaded thousands of rem express high brass shells. I always used rem wads.the were fine to use but Idont anymore.I have lost all of my notes on them when I moved to new home. if they will not eject it is because your chamber is worn.badly. they work as smooth as silk if resized before loading

 

... But I dont see any recommendations for highbrass shells, so i'm confused on what highbrass shells I can substitute.

The REM hi-brass black game loads are STS/Gun Club type hulls.

The (current production) Winchester Super-X (like in the pic above) are the hi-brass version of the Universal hull, and load with AA-HS/CF data.

The (current production) Green or Blue Rem/Peters, as above, are two-piece, low plastic basewad straight-wall hulls and you can used FGM-Plastic data with them.

GS

Thank you, can't you tell im new to this stuff? Haha :lol: Really thanks man.

 

Thank you, can't you tell im new to this stuff? Haha :lol: Really thanks man.

Yes, it's very easy to tell that you are "new to this stuff"!

Burnt Powder gave you some very good advice, but you seem to think that you know better.

Virtually all modern high brass hulls will be two piece in the plastic. That means that they have a seperate base wad, that can come loose and migrate out of the hull and be left stuck in the barrel. One such cost me a barrel when I fired the next shot, in an auto loader, a few years ago. (So if you do choose to use such poor choice hulls for other than a break open type gun that you can look down the bores before loading another shell, I suggest that you only reload them once and toss them! It will be much safer.)

Plus all the modern "high brass" just are not brass at all, as you have been told over and over. (Check it out with a magnet, brass is NOT magnetic.) They are steel with some sort of wash over it. Steel is much more prone to not cycle right in any auto loader, ever made than true brass. Someone mentioned the Winchester high brass Universal type hull, and using the AA loads for it. Winchester themselves recommend that the Universal type hull NOT be reloaded!

The "brass" height, or I should say, the metal base height has absolutely nothing to do with performance in any way, anymore! Good performance that is, as BP already stated. Any difference in performance will only be WORSE!

Active cartridge company made heavy load, high performance loads for years, with no external metal base at all. They were all plastic with just a thin steel wafer inside the plastic reinforcing the plastic rim.

 

How come you never see any high brass hulls recommended in any reloading recipes? All I ever see are the Win. HS AA's, Rem.sts's, and nitro 27's. Are there any books that do recommend them?

Assuming you are writing about 12-gauge 2-3/4 inch shells:
If you have not already done so, pick up a copy of Lyman's 5th edition of the Shotshell Reloading Handbook.

Turn to pages 152-154. There you will find recipes for Remington's High-Brass Hunting case. It's a 2-piece shell. It has a high-brass head, as shown on page 33.

As others have noted, the 12-gauge black plastic high-brass 2-3/4 inch 1-piece hulls made by Remington reload with the same recipes as the STS hulls. There are 12 pages of data in the Lyman manual for these.

For longer 12-ga hulls, and for 16, 20, 28, and 410, there are many pages of data for high-brass.

--Bob

 

Yes, it is true that on very rare occasions a base wad can come loose & get stuck in your barrel. It is also true that one piece hulls are more reloadable. It may be true that hunting loads are offered in two piece hulls because they are cheaper, at least in part. That is not the only reason. There is also the amount of room inside of the hull & PRESSURE!! There is more room inside of a hull with a disc base & thin wall & they give better ballistics with heavy field loads & less pressure as a general rule. You don't have a choice all the time. There just are not a lot of one piece hulls for 3" 12 ga. & none for 10 ga. The WIN. AA HS hull is a two piece hull. The best hull depends on what you want to load in it. With up to 1.25oz. lead & with some other exceptions, the one piece target type hulls are great. You are pretty much out of luck if you are loading field loads in 3"or 3.5" 12 ga. or 10 ga. The excellent Federal one piece hulls are an exception & are made in 12 ga. 3" & 3.5". I don't think the disc base hulls are any more dangerous than the AA'S & the high capacity hulls have such a small disc that even if they did come loose & get in the barrel, it would most likely get blown out & not do any damage. The AA'S disc is a big, hard piece of plastic. It never hurts to check & careful case inspection before reloading is recommended.

 

Thank you, can't you tell im new to this stuff? Haha :lol: Really thanks man.

Yes, it's very easy to tell that you are "new to this stuff"!

Burnt Powder gave you some very good advice, but you seem to think that you know better.

No I dont think that, I just want some help in reloading Highbrass shells. If they are such a pos, then how come every place I look they are sold out of them (don't worry the AA's are usually sold out too)? I probably will end up reloading the all sacred AA hull, but for right now I want to try my hand with the Highbrass. Thanks

 

Just find some of these CHEDDITE HULL 12ga 2.75" 25mm LOOK HERE
http://www.grafs.com/product/256606

THEN GET YOUR DATA FOR THE HULLS HERE:

Hodgdon Powder Company
Shotshell Load Recipe Report - 11/6/2009
data.hodgdon.com 2 3/4" CHEDDITE PLASTIC SHELLS
Load Type: Lead Shot Gauge: 12

http://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html

THESE ARE WAY HIGH BRASS.
Try the longshot and whatever weight shot and wad you want that is in the data.
Knock your self out.