Kinda late to ask these questions, eh?

Personally, I would send the gun to a smith concentrating on older SxSs...and you may well have done so...for a complete check.
Not any gunsmith but one experienced in the type....once done, I would take that received advice and move forward....to use, to load or to a wall.
Rather than "low" pressure....an actual pressure top may be most beneficial to you and the gun.

Proof, to me, may not tell the entire story....unless official and recent enough to preclude a seller from honing on the barrels, etc.
Load, tho meeting proof may also not be advised for older wood either....does this gun have an age, chamber length, a make, a design, a steel type, etc.?

 

Hi Multiflora,

Thank you for the response. I decided to roll the dice and buy it because the price was low, I figured worst case now I have a fancy wall hanger or perhaps could find someone interested and get my money back. The gun is a C. Smith & Sons, addressed I believe to Kent or Trent steet- I have to double check. I was told the gun was dated to 1913 (from the seller, so may or may not be a reliable source) but from what I can find about the company this date does seem about right.

I like the idea about a SxS specialist, I am a member of a shotgun club and was thinking somebody there could point me to the right person to bring the gun to.

Thanks again for your response

-Dan

 

Dan,

Is it possible for you to post some photos of your gun? The most important part is the markings found beneath the barrels on the flat portion that sits on the receiver. That portion reveals the proof marks that tell us the chamber length, the choke, the standard of proof at the time it was made, who proofed it, and if it is proofed for smokeless powder. Also, photos of the top of the barrels to show maker and the opened receiver would help as well. Those pictures may help readers here to give you more insight about the gun. The advise about a person knowledgeable about doubles is wise. There are a number of things to look for on a gun and someone knowledgeable needs to handle the gun to determine is quality.

Don’t be put off be an English gun that is old. Many made more than a century ago are still being used frequently. My oldest double is 103 years old, my youngest is 70. I shoot with a friend who’s gun is 122. They were made well and made to last. Hope this helps.

 

Dan,

Is it possible for you to post some photos of your gun? The most important part is the markings found beneath the barrels on the flat portion that sits on the receiver. That portion reveals the proof marks that tell us the chamber length, the choke, the standard of proof at the time it was made, who proofed it, and if it is proofed for smokeless powder. Also, photos of the top of the barrels to show maker and the opened receiver would help as well. Those pictures may help readers here to give you more insight about the gun. The advise about a person knowledgeable about doubles is wise. There are a number of things to look for on a gun and someone knowledgeable needs to handle the gun to determine is quality.

Don’t be put off be an English gun that is old. Many made more than a century ago are still being used frequently. My oldest double is 103 years old, my youngest is 70. I shoot with a friend who’s gun is 122. They were made well and made to last. Hope this helps.

Hi Dward, thanks for this reply. Here's some shots I got on the stamps underneath the barrels, as well as the Makers stamp on top. I can't make out what the letters/numbers are between the crossed swords, but the marks on top read C. SMITH & SONS NEWARK ON TRENT

 

This willl get you started on the proof mark meaning, and the date they were used:

Proof mark dates for British Guns

When they were made, all British guns had to be subjected to proof testing (they still are) to ensure that they were fit for purpose.

www.vintageguns.co.uk

The gun will, in theory, be safe to use with CIP spec ammunition. The in “theory” part is that a good double gunsmith needs to inspect and measure the barrels and examine the action. I believe Chris Dawes and Claudio J Opacek are both Canadian ‘smiths who could examine your gun. I would actually expect to hear either the low pressure or black powder only story from either. That gun has done some time.

Good luck.

Phage

 

That chart is cool, reading:

Birmingham Proof House 1887-1896

 

Danny,

With the warning that I am not expert on the history of English proof marks, it looks as thought your gun, a back action hammer gun, dates to the very late 1900’s, perhaps very early 20th century. I see Birmingham black powder proofs and view marks. The right barrel is cylinder and the left should be around modified, maybe. I would expect a 2 1/2 inch chamber. A visual inspection is necessary to determine if the gun is on face and the measurements of barrel thickness, chamber length, and choke. Also, from the photos it’s difficult for me to determine if the barrels are fluid steel or Damascus.

The doublegun bbs carries a thread on Smith in a discussion from December 09. It provides detail about the company and family. Smith also produced ammunition under several other names. I came up with a lot of information worth sifting through if you have the time.

Personally your gun looks interesting. Good luck with it. I hope you get it up and running soon.

 

This is just my opinion, someone you've never met. I've been shooting old Damascus barreled SxSs since about 2004, and have owned over 20 to 30 in this time span, right now a dozen. I'm gonna guess your gun was made around 1870 or so, and it looks like twist Damascus barrels, but can't be sure from the pictures. I only shoot American made guns. The British usually had their guns gone through by a gunsmith after every season and sometimes that meant honing the barrels and they could get quite thin. Becuase in America everyone could hunt it was not common for the guns to be returned to a gunsmith every year and our barrels didn't get honed thinner. With that said, if you still have .030 or thicker at the muzzle and a .100 at the breach, I personally wouldn't worry about the barrels being dangerous. Here in the USA we don't have a proof house, so I wouldn't worry too much about it having or not having proof marks. Sherman Bell a couple of years back ran some articles in the Double Gun Journal where he tested 20 Damascus barrel wall hangers to see if he could blow them up. None blew with 18, 250psi proof loads [ normal 12ga load is at most 11,000psi or so ]. He took one Parker to 30,000psi before one of the barrels blew, and the other barrel to 32,000psi before it went. This was with pattern damascus barrels which are considered the strongest. He latter tried it with 20 twist Damascus barrel guns which he thought were just cheap Beligum made barrels. They wouldn't blow with the 18,000 proof loads. The only reason I wrote all that was to show the old guns are much stronger than many want to admit. Each gun has it's own limits, but many modern gunsmiths want to cover their a$$ and just say don't shoot older guns. My SxSs date from 1873 to 1900. All Damascus except three Remington 1894s with " low carbon steel barrels". I shoot my own reloads that are what we'd call low pressure - 8000psi or less - out of respect for the wood. I put on a SxS shoot every year and many guys shoot the old SxSs with regular store bought shells. For me the light 3/4 or 7/8oz reloads help keep recoil to a minimum to the shoulder, cheek, and 100+ year old wooden stocks.
About BP loads. Your gun doesn't know if it's BP or smokeless creating the pressure, just how much there is. There's probably 8 or 10 guys at my club who shoot old Damascus barreled SxSs and have never had a gunsmith look at them. Just get someone you trust, or yourself, and look to see how thick the barrels are. if they look good, shoot it. JMPO - good luck and have fun. Paul

 

Also, you might want to consider that gun barrels seldom blow up unless there is a catastrophic over pressure event. However, over pressure loads generally greatly accelerate destructive forces & premature failure. Usually, a gun will become loose or off face long before it actually fails. Personally, I don't want to expose my eyesight & body parts to a possible explosion based on a "probability". The evaluation by a gunsmith that is an expert on vintage doubles seems like a prudent move to me!

 

Any way you look at it that is a cool old gun. I would have bought it also.

 

Hmm...a very interesting purchase from you